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OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Pay attention, you were telling us about how you signed for everything USAPA has done. 😉
I realize you're just being willfully ignorant and obtuse because the reality of elected representatives...in the case of the Nic award....doesn't fit your DOH entitled world view. Just because I didn't vote to invade Iraq doesn't mean my country didn't invade Iraq.

You see,(and this is a core problem with East pilots) you simply can't "pick and choose" when certain rules apply and when they don't. A Federal Judge rather eloquently put it ths way:

Before and after its election, USAPA has misled the majority about its power to improve their seniority prospects at the expense of the West Pilots. The will of the East Pilots springs from a mistaken understanding of the law and mismanaged expectations. If this is an impasse, it is one USAPA goaded on.

If the membership were correctly advised on the limits of fair representation that constrain the agreement—and all the collective bargaining of every union—then they would perceive no incentive to hold out for an improper bargaining objective. Those employees would be left with a choice: To vote in favor of ratifying a single CBA that incorporated the Nicolau Award, or to vote against it. What they could not do is vote against it and expect the next CBA or the next union to violate the duty of fair representation in the very same way as the first one could not. In effect, USAPA claims that the East Pilots hold such strong objections to the Nicolau Award that they always will vote as a bloc against any new CBA with it, enjoying the self-denial of a single CBA with improved wages and working conditions into perpetuity. Even if this unbelievable story is believed, it only means that the East Pilots have the power of self-inflicted harm. It does not mean that the union's duty of fair representation falls victim to self-hostagetaking.

Whether considered as a matter of fact or law, the asserted impasse does not absolve USAPA from liability.

Addington v. U.S. Airline Pilots Ass'n, CV08-1633-PHXNVW, 2009 WL 2169164 (D. Ariz. July 17, 2009)

This is the hurdle USAPA will never get over. This is the reality the APA is going to inherit during a merger. Too bad your group is so comfortable being willfully ignorant and obtuse in the face certain realities. It has cost you dearly. Also, for the ten thousandth time, I don't work for your airline. I REALLY didn't vote for anything to do with your fake, willfully ignorant, obtuse "Union".
 
I realize you're just being willfully ignorant and obtuse because the reality of elected representatives...in the case of the Nic award....doesn't fit your DOH entitled world view. Just because I didn't vote to invade Iraq doesn't mean my country didn't invade Iraq.

You see,(and this is a core problem with East pilots) you simply can't "pick and choose" when certain rules apply and when they don't. A Federal Judge rather eloquently put it ths way:

Before and after its election, USAPA has misled the majority about its power to improve their seniority prospects at the expense of the West Pilots. The will of the East Pilots springs from a mistaken understanding of the law and mismanaged expectations. If this is an impasse, it is one USAPA goaded on.

If the membership were correctly advised on the limits of fair representation that constrain the agreement—and all the collective bargaining of every union—then they would perceive no incentive to hold out for an improper bargaining objective. Those employees would be left with a choice: To vote in favor of ratifying a single CBA that incorporated the Nicolau Award, or to vote against it. What they could not do is vote against it and expect the next CBA or the next union to violate the duty of fair representation in the very same way as the first one could not. In effect, USAPA claims that the East Pilots hold such strong objections to the Nicolau Award that they always will vote as a bloc against any new CBA with it, enjoying the self-denial of a single CBA with improved wages and working conditions into perpetuity. Even if this unbelievable story is believed, it only means that the East Pilots have the power of self-inflicted harm. It does not mean that the union's duty of fair representation falls victim to self-hostagetaking.

Whether considered as a matter of fact or law, the asserted impasse does not absolve USAPA from liability.

Addington v. U.S. Airline Pilots Ass'n, CV08-1633-PHXNVW, 2009 WL 2169164 (D. Ariz. July 17, 2009)

This is the hurdle USAPA will never get over. This is the reality the APA is going to inherit during a merger. Too bad your group is so comfortable being willfully ignorant and obtuse in the face certain realities. It has cost you dearly. Also, for the ten thousandth time, I don't work for your airline. I REALLY didn't vote for anything to do with your fake, willfully ignorant, obtuse "Union".
That wouldn't be the same FEDERAL JUDGE that takes golf lessons from a "WEST PILOT" or isn't smart enough to know a case in front of him isn't ripe, or maybe he needed a hobby?
 
I realize you're just being willfully ignorant and obtuse because the reality of elected representatives...in the case of the Nic award....doesn't fit your DOH entitled world view. Just because I didn't vote to invade Iraq doesn't mean my country didn't invade Iraq.

You see,(and this is a core problem with East pilots) you simply can't "pick and choose" when certain rules apply and when they don't. A Federal Judge rather eloquently put it ths way:

Before and after its election, USAPA has misled the majority about its power to improve their seniority prospects at the expense of the West Pilots. The will of the East Pilots springs from a mistaken understanding of the law and mismanaged expectations. If this is an impasse, it is one USAPA goaded on.

If the membership were correctly advised on the limits of fair representation that constrain the agreement—and all the collective bargaining of every union—then they would perceive no incentive to hold out for an improper bargaining objective. Those employees would be left with a choice: To vote in favor of ratifying a single CBA that incorporated the Nicolau Award, or to vote against it. What they could not do is vote against it and expect the next CBA or the next union to violate the duty of fair representation in the very same way as the first one could not. In effect, USAPA claims that the East Pilots hold such strong objections to the Nicolau Award that they always will vote as a bloc against any new CBA with it, enjoying the self-denial of a single CBA with improved wages and working conditions into perpetuity. Even if this unbelievable story is believed, it only means that the East Pilots have the power of self-inflicted harm. It does not mean that the union's duty of fair representation falls victim to self-hostagetaking.

Whether considered as a matter of fact or law, the asserted impasse does not absolve USAPA from liability.

Addington v. U.S. Airline Pilots Ass'n, CV08-1633-PHXNVW, 2009 WL 2169164 (D. Ariz. July 17, 2009)

This is the hurdle USAPA will never get over. This is the reality the APA is going to inherit during a merger. Too bad your group is so comfortable being willfully ignorant and obtuse in the face certain realities. It has cost you dearly. Also, for the ten thousandth time, I don't work for your airline. I REALLY didn't vote for anything to do with your fake, willfully ignorant, obtuse "Union".

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah... meanwhile here on the East the March 2013 bid is out. Here are the highlights:


PERMANENT BID 13-01 HIGHLIGHTS
�� Increase A330 lines and staffing in support of summer schedule and 2013 fleet growth �� Increase B76I staffing in support of summer schedule �� Increase A320 lines and staffing in support of schedule �� Decrease B737 staffing and lines due to seasonal schedule and fleet retirements
�� Increase E90 lines in support of fleet growth �� Additional 120 pilots to support schedule, attrition and retirements �� 30 pilots leaving bid to SPV positions, 29 leaving due to retirement �� You could be scheduled for training after notification as early as December �� Bid announcements and results will be published on WINGS under "Flight Operations\Pilot Bids Sub"


36 Widebody C/O vacancies
41 Widebody F/O vacancies
51 AB C/O Vacancies
9 E-190 C/O Vacancies
9 737 C/O Reductions

This bid will create movement from top to bottom. FYI.

Skier
 
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah... meanwhile here on the East the March 2013 bid is out. Here are the highlights:


PERMANENT BID 13-01 HIGHLIGHTS
�� Increase A330 lines and staffing in support of summer schedule and 2013 fleet growth �� Increase B76I staffing in support of summer schedule �� Increase A320 lines and staffing in support of schedule �� Decrease B737 staffing and lines due to seasonal schedule and fleet retirements
�� Increase E90 lines in support of fleet growth �� Additional 120 pilots to support schedule, attrition and retirements �� 30 pilots leaving bid to SPV positions, 29 leaving due to retirement �� You could be scheduled for training after notification as early as December �� Bid announcements and results will be published on WINGS under "Flight Operations\Pilot Bids Sub"


36 Widebody C/O vacancies
41 Widebody F/O vacancies
51 AB C/O Vacancies
9 E-190 C/O Vacancies
9 737 C/O Reductions

This bid will create movement from top to bottom. FYI.

Skier

No it won't create movement for everyone. Trader is already an A330 Captain. And in his words, "Don't spend your attrition all at once. :lol:
 


Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah... meanwhile here on the East the March 2013 bid is out. Here are the highlights:


PERMANENT BID 13-01 HIGHLIGHTS
�� Increase A330 lines and staffing in support of summer schedule and 2013 fleet growth �� Increase B76I staffing in support of summer schedule �� Increase A320 lines and staffing in support of schedule �� Decrease B737 staffing and lines due to
seasonal schedule and fleet retirements

�� Increase E90 lines in support of fleet growth �� Additional 120 pilots to support schedule, attrition and retirements �� 30 pilots leaving bid to SPV positions, 29 leaving due to retirement �� You could be scheduled for training after notification
as early as December �� Bid announcements and results will be published on WINGS under "Flight Operations\Pilot Bids Sub"



36 Widebody C/O vacancies
41 Widebody F/O vacancies
51 AB C/O Vacancies
9 E-190 C/O Vacancies
9 737 C/O Reductions

This bid will create movement from top to bottom. FYI.

Skier

"Fleet Growth".....Really?

oh, man is this going to get interesting!,,

Two words....collusion....and.....(you thought I was going to say scab)....

the other word is damages!
 
The retirements are going to occur out West too.. only thing is Doug said that they will not be replacing pilots out West as they retire, but they will be adding new hires out East (to the already 130+ from over the last year).

Think of it as Attrition advancement on the East, and Atrophy reversion on the West... and of course good fortune for Doug.

LMAO!!!

got any scheduling info to share with the West...like vacation distribution, holiday flying, etc...

Usapa is about to get the boot....and I ain't talking Auxier's!
 
"Fleet Growth".....Really?

oh, man is this going to get interesting!,,

Two words....collusion....and.....(you thought I was going to say scab)....

the other word is damages!

Collusion usually involves two parties sharing at least some common information that others don't have. Do you think the Eas was privy to and participated in any decisions made about increasing flying out East?
 
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