OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Seriously. You an east pilots is going to point to arbitration to make your point.

With the Nicolau you all scream that it is unfair and that DOH is the only way to do things. That the west should have known it was unfair and should have done something about it.

Yet when the west is harmed and the east gains by arbitration the east does nothing to correct what you call your core value. Where was your outrage with this arbitration? where were your screams of outrage that DOH was not used?

Hypocrites.

You have only one core value. Screw anyone one you can, whenever you can.

Quite the opposite, operational intergration, solves that problem, and the only way is thru a JCBA, it is the same as let us saya commuter flow thru program, If the trend were reversed I am also sure you would be screaming, "HE GETS HIS RIGHTFUL NIC" yea right! Talk about HYPOCRITE, go to DUI tell him you want it changed!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Wow, the westies are really coming unglued, worst I've seen in quite awhile. Where is our potty mouth abusive JJ, I for sure thought he would be on.

Wait till the bid results are posted, the bid after this one will dwarf this bid, HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[Ames]

Not that that has anything to do with it as far as we're concerned but I've NEVER been furloughed. FYI.

Keep tilting at windmills. Enjoy your day!

You said you were placed junior to Odell according to our math. I don't know what you consider our math but we are comparing DOH to the Nic. The senior most eastie on furlough was Cohlello. He is one below Odell on the Nic. So, how is it you were never furloughed if you are junior to Odell on the Nic?

I am thoroughly enjoying my day but it is YOU who are tilting at windmills.

PS: If you are who I think you are you're at 69% on the Nic. Considerably senior to Odell, which makes this whole point moot.

 

[traderjake]

I don't recall USAPA having any binding arbitration with the west, that might have been the previous union you are thinking of.

This is by far the stupidest thing you've said.

Does USAPA have a contract with the company?

What does that contract say about arbitration with the West?

 

[Ames]

Ames,

So I hear you say that IF we merge with AA that when the AA furloughed return they should as well be below Dave O.
Those fellow pilots have paid their respective dues and should return with their YOS longevity in my very strong opinion.
Please have your army and cactusboy friend to put that in writing for the APA to consider.
I double dare ya!

FA

If American has pilots on furlough when/if we merge then, yes, those should be below the very bottom active US Airways pilot.

 

[Phoenix]

Ames,

So I hear you say that IF we merge with AA that when the AA furloughed return they should as well be below Dave O.
Those fellow pilots have paid their respective dues and should return with their YOS longevity in my very strong opinion.
Please have your army and cactusboy friend to put that in writing for the APA to consider.
I double dare ya!

FA

Any pilot at AA recalled since the Nic came out should also be below Dave. That's just the way it should be when one airline saves two others.

 

[nic4us]

You may be correct, but the courts (as the west has found out, since Addington was a west complaint) are still the final authority. Remember, it was the west who started the "time consuming and expensive" court odyssey. (Although the east ALPA MEC had already resorted to the court system to stop the Nicolau when the bargaining agent election dissolved the parties to that suit and made it moot.)

If the Nicolau arbitration indeed had the power of federal law behind the decision, the courts would not have heard any of these cases.

Exactly the opposite of the facts. The Nicolau arbitration most certainly has the power of federal law behind it, and that is exactly why the courts hear these cases. Further, it is why no court to date has commented on the binding nature of the arbitration....it is binding, and on usapa...as opined by the judges who have weighed in.

You are correct that the courts are the final authority. Moreover, if you think that a future MB arbitration is incontestable in the court system, you would again be mistaken.

 

[cleardirect]

Ames,

So I hear you say that IF we merge with AA that when the AA furloughed return they should as well be below Dave O.
Those fellow pilots have paid their respective dues and should return with their YOS longevity in my very strong opinion.
Please have your army and cactusboy friend to put that in writing for the APA to consider.
I double dare ya!

FA

Really.

the April seniority list I saw had 1000 deferred american pilots and 650 furloughed pilots. The senior deferred pilot has a DOH of 5/2000. The furloughed pilot are between 6/2001 and 11/2001 DOH.

So you Father Abraham are telling the new hires and anyone hired after 2001 on the east that you would throw them, active pilots under the bus in favor of american furloughed pilots.

Will you also honor the 150 Eagle flow thru with DOH of 2008? Going to make them senior to active east pilots even though they have never worked for mainline?

You are actually happy to have 650 american furloughed pilot senior to over 300 current active east pilots. I am sure they will be thrilled to learn this. Plus the 1000 american pilots that have deferred come back senior to them. I am sure they will thank in a big way giving away 1600 number for them.

 

[nic4us]

Any pilot at AA recalled since the Nic came out should also be below Dave. That's just the way it should be when one airline saves two others.

Each case turns on it's own merit....and while Odell might end up junior to AMR pilots recalled post Nic, or even still on furlough...he will remain senior to Colello.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Unbiased Facts Update for November 26, 2012: BPR Authorizes Former Officer to Obtain Banked Vacation Prior to Entering LTD Status

Quick Fact #241: During his three year term as USAPA’s President Mike Cleary claimed he did not take vacation. Cleary asked the BPR to award him 3 years of unused vacation to be paid by the union. US Airways’ line pilots are not permitted to bank unused vacation. Should the BPR waive the provision in UOM Section 5.III.e to pay banked vacation time to a former officer prior to him entering LTD Status that is a benefit not available to the line pilots?

Link to Article:
http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/QF241-USAPA-Banked-Vacation-Before-Disability.pdf

Recent Quick Fact Updates:
http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com/quick-facts-3/

Site:
http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com/

Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

Unbiased Facts is pleased to announce our move to Wordpress.comwhere every Unbiased Facts publication, past and present, can be found. Find us at: http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com We hope you enjoy the new layout and fresh presentation.

Share The Facts! We encourage you to forward this email to friends who want to know what's really going on with USAPA.

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[cleardirect]

Unbiased Facts Update for November 26, 2012: BPR Authorizes Former Officer to Obtain Banked Vacation Prior to Entering LTD Status

Quick Fact #241: During his three year term as USAPA’s President Mike Cleary claimed he did not take vacation. Cleary asked the BPR to award him 3 years of unused vacation to be paid by the union. US Airways’ line pilots are not permitted to bank unused vacation. Should the BPR waive the provision in UOM Section 5.III.e to pay banked vacation time to a former officer prior to him entering LTD Status that is a benefit not available to the line pilots?

Link to Article:
http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/QF241-USAPA-Banked-Vacation-Before-Disability.pdf

Recent Quick Fact Updates:
http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com/quick-facts-3/

Site:
http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com/

Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

Unbiased Facts is pleased to announce our move to Wordpress.comwhere every Unbiased Facts publication, past and present, can be found. Find us at: http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com We hope you enjoy the new layout and fresh presentation.

Share The Facts! We encourage you to forward this email to friends who want to know what's really going on with USAPA.

To subscribe, send a reply message with subscribe in the subject line.

To unsubscribe send a reply message with unsubscribe.​

What? You east guys are concerned about following the rules you created now? When have rules and agreements ever mattered to you guys?

That is really the core value of east pilots ignore or change the rules when you don't like them.

Does the appeal board election ring a bell?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Why start penny pinching and worrying about rules now. Either totally revamp this outfit called usapa or just pay Cleary.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Further, it is why no court to date has commented on the binding nature of the arbitration....it is binding, and on usapa...as opined by the judges who have weighed in.

Really? No court has commented on the "binding nature"?

Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals: "We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the
Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was
its predecessor, ALPA."

US District Court, Judge Silver: "Moreover, USAPA and US Airways are now engaged in negotiations for an entirely new
collective bargaining agreement and there is no obvious impediment to USAPA and US
Airways negotiating and agreeing upon any seniority regime they wish. As explained by the
Ninth Circuit, “seniority rights are creations of the collective bargaining agreement, and so
may be revised or abrogated by later negotiated changes in this agreement.” Hass v.
Darigold Dairy Products Co., 751 F.2d 1096, 1099 (9th Cir. 1985)."

 

[Phoenix]

What? You east guys are concerned about following the rules you created now? When have rules and agreements ever mattered to you guys?

That is really the core value of east pilots ignore or change the rules when you don't like them.

Does the appeal board election ring a bell?

After all this time you still are stuck on accusing folks of having no integrity. The East is all black hearted and evil is continually on their mind. Got it.

Catch this.... the BPR decision is... wait for it... an internal union matter.

The relentless, invective outbursts demonstrate that some folks have simply surrendered to ever having hope of changing ANYTHING at all according to the rules (yeah the rules, the enforceable rules, otherwise there ain't much use in calling them rules, or at least call them subordinate rules) and rather than try, just take pleasure in venting about everything. I've seen little dogs that bark so much you can't understand where they get a breath in. Its kinda humorous.

 

[end_of_alpa]

end_of_alpa, on 26 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:
Like i thought. No answer.

And no, I'm not contributing to your already weak legal foundation. Your community college may offer a basic course in Labor Law 101 or Contracts 100.

Enjoy class.

You just can't teach some people.

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View Postcleardirect, on 26 November 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Federal law has chosen arbitration as the method to settle seniority.


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View Postend_of_alpa, on 26 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:
Cite the case and/or law.



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Really? Are you that out of touch and clueless. You don't know the answer to your question?

If you can't figure out the basics you are a waste of time to try and educate.

The legislation, known as the McCaskill-Bond statute, was signed into law in December 2007 and is codified at 49 U.S.C. § 42112.

Federal law. Arbitration is used to settle seniority.

Are we done here?
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What is usapa’s legitimate union purpose; for anything?
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If you fly the way you teach you may wish to rethink your life.

McCaskill-Bond doesn't apply to our situation.

What else can I teach you?