OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Thanks. One sometimes forgets that all of human history started ten years ago. 😉 Heck...I even have occassional and clearly delusional memories of a half century of life experience prior to that time....Go figure! 🙂

Maybe there were a lot of times and places over the last ten years where a knowledge of the difference between longevity and seniority was important, but I doubt it is required knowledge to complete IOE.

 

[EastUS1]

Maybe there were a lot of times and places over the last ten years where a knowledge of the difference between longevity and seniority was important, but I doubt it is required knowledge to complete IOE.

Yeah. I musta' missed all the memos on that myself, but whatta' we know about anything anyway? 😉

Metroyet, on 01 December 2012 - 07:10 PM, said: Relative seniority has been used in every arbitration in the last 10 years.

"A child of five would understand this! Someone go fetch a child of five!" Groucho Marx

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I know exactly what your seniority number is. So what? Are you afraid to bid the 330, TB? (Or do you go by AB?) All those senior F/Os that you are anxious to throw under the bus will have you out numbered on the crew. Might be uncomfortable for you. At least my crews know I have their backs when it comes to keeping the Nic away.

Should be no big deal for 924. After all, those FOs aren't intimidating racketeers like the cactus 18, right?

 

[mrbreeze]

Well, folks....time to change my avatar.

Just fyi, to those of you who have helped my daughter in the past, she and I appreciate what you have done. Each time we received a donation from someone on this board, I have sat down and pointed out who you are. She does understand the civil war that we have going on here, and especially appreciated the West pilot's donations, who have shown where their spirit lies....thanks very much!

breeze

 

[Metroyet]

Thanks. One sometimes forgets that all of human history started ten years ago. 😉 Heck...I even have occassional and clearly delusional false memories of a half century of life experience prior to that time....Go figure! 🙂

No matter, I suppose. Keep up the good work in telling us all just how everything should be in this fine world of ours. 😉

Looking for a longer time horizon? I can tell you one thing that has never happened in the history of aviation mergers. Never has a majority been allowed to categorically dictate the seniority terms to the minority. That has never happened. Especially post final and binding arbitration. How do you like your odds?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

First point. With your track record when you say "I hear" pretty much means that you are about to lie.

You guys have been telling the lie that Parker is going to sell of the west for so long it has no value even saying it anymore. But as I said before please at the next crew news ask Parker about that. Suggest it. I would be very interested in hearing his answer. Because he has answered it before.

Now for the last part of your illogic. It is not the west that might cost him the merger. The west pilots are just unfortunate members of usapa. Usapa is the one screwing up his merger. It is usapa that went back on your word.

The west has insisted on one simple thing. Use the arbitration. Don't use it get sued. The rest of this is on the east. It is usapa that Parker refuses to negotiate with not the west. It is usapa name on the union not the west.

Take the time to read the NAC undate. Useless the NMB finds their spine Parker is going to get his delay. The delay that you guys are all crowing about now. LOA93 for the distant future.

When Horton exits BK as a stand alone, and runs a hostile takeover of LCC, and spins you off! You just might get it!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Looking for a longer time horizon? I can tell you one thing that has never happened in the history of aviation mergers. Never has a majority been allowed to categorically dictate the seniority terms to the minority. That has never happened. Especially post final and binding arbitration. How do you like your odds?

Better tell that to SWA, or AA! They will disagree!

 

[EastUS1]

Looking for a longer time horizon? I can tell you one thing that has never happened in the history of aviation mergers. Never has a majority been allowed to categorically dictate the seniority terms to the minority. That has never happened. How do you like your odds?

Missed the old American-TWA thing entirely, did you? More recently; the SWA business as well? Ummm....Has there ever been one where the minority dictated to the majority? No?....Just hoping for a first-time-ever result then?

"Looking for a longer time horizon?" I don't have to, since I lived through a few while you were still, at best, picking at pimples.

"How do you like your odds?" ..Can't much complain so far. You? 😉

 

[nycbusdriver]

The only thing it says is you don't know the difference between seniority and longevity.

If we merge with American you'll learn the difference, if not you'll get to enjoy LOA 93 for many years to come.

If the rumors of a 7 year crew base fence is correct, it won't make a lick of difference to me in an AA merger.

 

[EastUS1]

If the rumors of a 7 year crew base fence is correct, it won't make a lick of difference to me in an AA merger.

Likewise.

 

[cleardirect]

If the rumors of a 7 year crew base fence is correct, it won't make a lick of difference to me in an AA merger.

At least you said rumor. When you heard the rumor of a 7 years fence did they specifically say base or equipment?

A 7 year equipment fence makes more sense than a base fence.

Did republic/northwest get a base fence?


Do you think APA is more concerned about protecting who flys their 125 WB or what base you fly out of?

Besides you guys are convinced you will get DOH with American. Wy would you want a base fence?

Do you really want a base fence? What prevents Parker from moving all the WB out of east bases to AA bases? Can't follow them because of the fence.

 

[Metroyet]

Missed the old American-TWA thing entirely, did you? More recently; the SWA business as well? Ummm....Has there ever been one where the minority dictated to the majority? No?....Just hoping for a first-time-ever result then?

"Looking for a longer time horizon?" I don't have to, since I lived through a few while you were still, at best, picking at pimples.

"How do you like your odds?" ..Can't much complain so far. You? 😉

I assume you know that TWA thing resulted in new federal legislation to bar that sort of behavior. And AirTran voted in the affirmative. They didn't have it shoved down their throats. Let the West pilots vote on date of hire and respect the results. How's that sound? Which of those again we're done post final and binding arbitration?

 

[EastUS1]

And AirTran voted in the affirmative. They didn't have it shoved down their throats.

That's past all of the usually accepted standards for just-plain-naive.

Were you unable to easilly field: "Has there ever been one where the minority dictated to the majority? No?....Just hoping for a first-time-ever result then?"

Metroyet "I can tell you one thing that has never happened in the history of aviation mergers. Never has a majority been allowed to categorically dictate the seniority terms to the minority."...Ooops!...Quickly followed by: "I assume you know that TWA thing resulted in new federal legislation to bar that sort of behavior." 😉 Some, or even the most feeble attempts at consistency would be appreciated.

"....never happened in the history...." 🙂

 

[Metroyet]

That's past all of the usually accepted standards for just-plain-naive.

Were you unable to easilly field: "Has there ever been one where the minority dictated to the majority? No?....Just hoping for a first-time-ever result then?"

It's a stupid question that's why. The ARBITRATOR dictates the terms. That's why YOU HIRED HIM in the first place. The West isn't dictating anything to the East. Nice attempt at completely reframing the argument to suit your demented world view. unfortunately for you, no ody is as stupid as you hope they are. the West is merely promising to keep you on LOA93 until you all retire. If that's your choice, so be it. It's been a smashing success so far hasn't it.

 

[EastUS1]

"Were you unable to easilly field: "Has there ever been one where the minority dictated to the majority? No?....Just hoping for a first-time-ever result then?"

It's a stupid question that's why. The ARBITRATOR dictates the terms.

I see. 🙂....and...how's that dictating been working out for you?