OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Understood nic. I really don't see any of this as being a "done deal" thus far. It seems apparent though, that the west's road to even any conceivable triumph has become considerably more cratered than ever before, and I see progressively less and less real viability for even any assumption of a magically bulletproof DFR....and....perhaps to my discredit...well...I just can't help finding ample amusement in the irrational yappings of some of your junior puppies here. 😉 Oh well. Back home and time for some sleep now. Have a good one all.

Well, you got that part right.

We are far from being done.

First, Silver has to actually post her final opinion. I would say there is about a 20% chance she makes changes that put a nail in the usapa coffin, and about a 10% chance she screws the West and says enough is enough and I am granting the company immunity.

If either of those remotes happen, usapa or the West would appeal. so, further delay.

If she just goes with what is already known, either the company asks the NMB to reject usapa and keep us parked, or they appeal, or both.


Meanwhile we are still in the context of an AMR merger, and if that deal falls through, and usapa gets its way, and the NMB restarts mediation, we are at least 9 and more like 18 months from a contract vote, and if that contract does not contain the Nic in section 22, the entire legal process starts over.


Far...far...far from a done deal....and Dan Davis can sit on LOA93 that entire time and have "these idiots cost him money".

 

[Move2CLT]

Dan Davis will be an FO on LOA93 when he retires.

Suckah.

LMAO.

 

[Claxon]

Yes Nic4, she is speaking to Wake right now, about those changes. He is showing her the spank marks where he got served in San Fran. She knows labor law. Her clerks did a great job keeping her out of the trouble Wake steered in. and Harper believed.
The question of the day: how does Harper keep a straight face when he feeds you the tall NICOLAU tales?? Honestly, at what point does the idiot figure out he is trapped by every court with that preposterous NICOLAU Abortion? You cannot make it stick. How many court experiences do you need?

 

[Claxon]

Dan Davis will be an FO on LOA93 when he retires.

Suckah.

LMAO.

He says you won't move to CLT. So far he wins.

 

[nic4us]

Yes Nic4, she is speaking to Wake right now, about those changes. He is showing her the spank marks where he got served in San Fran. She knows labor law. Her clerks did a great job keeping her out of the trouble Wake steered in. and Harper believed.
The question of the day: how does Harper keep a straight face when he feeds you the tall NICOLAU tales?? Honestly, at what point does the idiot figure out he is trapped by every court with that preposterous NICOLAU Abortion? You cannot make it stick. How many court experiences do you need?

Don't need any court appearances to make binding remain binding.

Only need the threat of court appearances.

Silver affirmed the threat, and she has done it in a way that leaves no options for usapa other than to try to get the West to buy into an alternate scheme.

Well the West just might make a compromise...here is our opening position...we staple the east and put a 7 year fence starting in 2005, around PHL,CLT,DCA,LGA and PIT.

 

[luvthe9]

Where is your ally Jetzz after the big defeat? He cheered you on loss after loss. Strangely silent.

 

[Metroyet]

Despite all the hyperbolic spin and what can only be described as more typical USAPIAN intentional omission and mis-direction in their communications there is still a very honest question for the East:

How much longer are you willing to wait for USAPA to pull a rabbit out of the proverbial hat?

What if you're still here, merger or not, in 2 to 3 years still on LOA93? Ten years past the AMW merger and still no contract...is that OK?

Personally I think there isn't ever going to be the big final moment when this gets resolved. What Silver has done is continue to slowly grind USAPA into a finer powder...the company too. I think this entire process is more geared to force THE COMPANY clean up their own mess. There is now, and ever has been only one safe choice for the Company...the unequivocal use of the Nic. Award. Silver is clearly unimpressed with the idea that the company has taken 2.5 years worth of court time to ask her to do their job for them.

If all you EVER expected or desired out of you Little Union Experiment was delay....fine. My suspicion is that most of you we're hoping for a little more for your money.

How much longer will you wait?

 

[nevergiveup]

Don't need any court appearances to make binding remain binding.

Only need the threat of court appearances.

Silver affirmed the threat, and she has done it in a way that leaves no options for usapa other than to try to get the West to buy into an alternate scheme.

Well the West just might make a compromise...here is our opening position...we staple the east and put a 7 year fence starting in 2005, around PHL,CLT,DCA,LGA and PIT.

You already said no to that when it was offered. Mr. Parker seems to prefer a 3 way and that is my guess at what will happen. You can then sue the federal arbitrator if you don't like his decision.

 

[Metroyet]

You already said no to that when it was offered. Mr. Parker seems to prefer a 3 way and that is my guess at what will happen. You can then sue the federal arbitrator if you don't like his decision.

They're going to sue the company within the hour as soon as they officially collude with USAPA. The company is on record that they believed the Nic to be binding and part of the status quo the entire time. They've plainly stated that to accept anything other would be illegal. Again, all a matter of official court record.

Think that may come up if they collude? Silver is trying to lead The Coward Doug Parker down the path he's tried to ignore for 7 years.

 

[Zone5]

Despite all the hyperbolic spin and what can only be described as more typical USAPIAN intentional omission and mis-direction in their communications there is still a very honest question for the East:

How much longer are you willing to wait for USAPA to pull a rabbit out of the proverbial hat?

What if you're still here, merger or not, in 2 to 3 years still on LOA93? Ten years past the AMW merger and still no contract...is that OK?

Personally I think there isn't ever going to be the big final moment when this gets resolved. What Silver has done is continue to slowly grind USAPA into a finer powder...the company too. I think this entire process is more geared to force THE COMPANY clean up their own mess. There is now, and ever has been only one safe choice for the Company...the unequivocal use of the Nic. Award. Silver is clearly unimpressed with the idea that the company has taken 2.5 years worth of court time to ask her to do their job for them.

If all you EVER expected or desired out of you Little Union Experiment was delay....fine. My suspicion is that most of you we're hoping for a little more for your money.

How much longer will you wait?

As long as it takes or until I retire, whichever occurs first.


seajay

 

[cleardirect]

Yes Nic4, she is speaking to Wake right now, about those changes. He is showing her the spank marks where he got served in San Fran. She knows labor law. Her clerks did a great job keeping her out of the trouble Wake steered in. and Harper believed.
The question of the day: how does Harper keep a straight face when he feeds you the tall NICOLAU tales?? Honestly, at what point does the idiot figure out he is trapped by every court with that preposterous NICOLAU Abortion? You cannot make it stick. How many court experiences do you need?

Read the transcripts. Especially what Siegel says. From the reports I got he was panicked that Silver was not going to rule. It is the company that filed this law suit and it is the company that needs an answer. Otherwise Parker is going to have to decide.

If you think the Nicolau is dead and usapa won. Get to negotiations. But don't be surprised when the company refuses to use anything other than the Nicolau.

While judge Silver may not issue an official order saying it has to be the Nicolau. She can issue unofficial very strong judicial warning and suggestion what the company should do.

Ever been pulled over by a cop for speeding but not gotten ticket? He may not give you a ticket but issue a strong warning to slow down. Do you tear ass leaving and continue speeding after the warning or do you slow down?

Now apply that to a multi billion dollar company and their liability.

 

[nic4us]

You already said no to that when it was offered. Mr. Parker seems to prefer a 3 way and that is my guess at what will happen. You can then sue the federal arbitrator if you don't like his decision.

Get a clue already....

The arbitrator would never be sued.

usapa would be sued immediately upon submission of any non-Nic seniority list for the pilots it represents. An injunction will be sought and any further proceedings of a SLI could be shut down until that case were resolved many years later.

Does not sound like Parker's preferred method to me. Unless of course he would like to run three seperate ops with the APA pilots on their term sheet, the east on LOA93 and the West on contract 2004....oh, wait...you may be on to something here!!

 

[nic4us]

As long as it takes or until I retire, whichever occurs first.


seajay

so be it....

Now please inform usapa that you are willing to remain on LOA93 til retirement, and see if you can get them to publish that as their stated goal.

 

[Zone5]

Get a clue already....

The arbitrator would never be sued.

usapa would be sued immediately upon submission of any non-Nic seniority list for the pilots it represents. An injunction will be sought and any further proceedings of a SLI could be shut down until that case were resolved many years later.

Does not sound like Parker's preferred method to me. Unless of course he would like to run three seperate ops with the APA pilots on their term sheet, the east on LOA93 and the West on contract 2004....oh, wait...you may be on to something here!!

Like I've been saying, three contracts and one paint job. That's "The Plan".


seajay

 

[cleardirect]

For all of you guys that think this is a victory and Nicolau is dead. Time to perform. The company has said that the road block to a contract was seniority. The union says that has been removed.

One of the big problems for usapa is the T/A. The T/A also says with mutual consent it can be changed. So lets move on. Have usapa go to the company and change it to DOH. No NMB required. Lets see what kind of negotiating skills usapa has. Lets see what the company's answer to moving off of the Nicolau is.

If you think you won it is time to move on. Put up or shut up.