OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

USAPA will put the two DOH lists that currently are in use on this property, on the table. Unless of course, by some miracle, an East-West JCBA is ratified prior to an AMR merger.

What might end up being negotiated and or arbitrated is anybody's guess, especially if it ends up being arbitrated. Once the post-merger JCBA gets ratified, the litigation can commence.


seajay

Okay, I understand...you think usapa will be able to go to a SLI and during either the negotiations and/or arbitration will simply disavow its DFR toward the membership and submit whatever it likes and expect everyone else in the room to play along.

 

[nic4us]

Wide range of reasonableness.

Duty of Fair Representation.

 

[Zone5]

I'd suggest all take a brief break and check this out! Too few times in life do we get a chance to see something amazing...and it's always nice to be reminded that our species can sometimes do some wonderful things....when not otherwise engaged in our primary hobby of fighting with each other, naturally. 😉 For the skydivers among us...this is a must watch!

http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/

Awesome!, thanks.


seajay

 

[Phoenix]

Duty of Fair Representation.

Exactly! The standard of DFR encompasses a wide range of reasonableness.

P.S. what happened to final and binding?

 

[EastUS1]

Awesome!, thanks.


seajay

My pleasure Bro. I gotta' admit I was Really unhappy to see the portion when he was spinning uncontrollably...that was worrisome.... A great recovery though, and a truly fine accomplishment! 🙂

 

[Zone5]

Okay, I understand...you think usapa will be able to go to a SLI and during either the negotiations and/or arbitration will simply disavow its DFR toward the membership and submit whatever it likes and expect everyone else in the room to play along.

In the event of a merger, I think USAPA will be able to go into negotiations and if necessary arbitration representing the best interests of all USAirways pilots to achieve the best possible JCBA within the context of it's CB&L's. It's not going to be the NIC, not unless the CB&L's are changed, because as it stands now, those are the parameters they are bound by.

I have no doubt in my mind that there will be unhappy pilots regardless of how it turns out and if it is done "fairly" there will be just as many, if not more, happy pilots. When you think about it, ANY SLI places nearly all pilots at something of a relative seniority disadvantage, except for number one.


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

Exactly! The standard of DFR encompasses a wide range of reasonableness.

P.S. what happened to final and binding?

Umm....perhaps over time; it got a bit "nic"ked away? 😉...sorry...

 

[EastUS1]

Pretty obsessed with your XBox, aren't you?

Anyway, I gently suggest to you that you stop living in the past and focus on your future.

1) I'll properly leave any Xbox toys in your unquestionably experienced hands.

2) Only a child or a tragically untreatable, true village idiot "lives" in anything other than the present. With that observation...I'll leave you to continue with your established philosophy, that so elegantly exhibits a fine blending of both mentioned qualifications. I suppose if I were cursed with nothing more to offer the world than an Xbox, an AWA "pedigree", high-school-level, semi-literacy and an obnoxious attitude....well....perhaps I could better understand your desperate need of fantasies for the "future".....rather than having any ability to enjoy the present.

 

[Ames]

The "three-way" referred to by Doug Parker in several crewroom sessions was specifically in response to the pilot SLI issue. The three DOH seniority lists that are currently in use, speak for themselves. How they would be ultimately combined will be the subject of ensuing negotiations between USAirways, APA and USAPA , a possible MB arbitration and rank and file ratification.


seajay

This does not answer the question. Ucrapa, with DOH in its constitution, represents only east interests. Who will represent the west? It's a rhetorical question because we all know that ucrapa represents all US Airways pillots and cannot legally represent only the east interests without violating its DFR.

 

[Ames]

The "three-way" referred to by Doug Parker in several crewroom sessions was specifically in response to the pilot SLI issue. The three DOH seniority lists that are currently in use, speak for themselves. How they would be ultimately combined will be the subject of ensuing negotiations between USAirways, APA and USAPA , a possible MB arbitration and rank and file ratification.


seajay

 

[fifidriver]

I have no doubt in my mind that there will be unhappy pilots regardless of how it turns out and if it is done "fairly" there will be just as many, if not more, happy pilots. When you think about it, ANY SLI places nearly all pilots at something of a relative seniority disadvantage, except for number one.


seajay

Unless you use a seniority list based on relative seniority. Am I missing something here? Five years and a billion dollars later the lightbulb flickers and maybe, just maybe illuminates? Is this an actual "a-ha" moment, or just a random neural firing highlighting the cognitive dissonance of the typical East belief system?

 

[EastUS1]

Zone: "When you think about it, ANY SLI places nearly all pilots at something of a relative seniority disadvantage, except for number one."

Unless you use a seniority list based on relative seniority. Am I missing something here? Five years and a billion dollars later the lightbulb flickers and maybe, just maybe illuminates? Is this an actual "a-ha" moment, or just a random neural firing highlighting the cognitive dissonance of the typical East belief system?

"Unless you use a seniority list based on relative seniority.".....? What!? So then; using a seniority list based on relative seniority allows for both people that were formerly 1st on their lists to remain 1st overall?...That'd be a pretty impressive trick. " Is this an actual "a-ha" moment, or just a random neural firing..."...? 😉

 

[Ames]

Pretty obsessed with your XBox, aren't you?

I guess he has moved on from t-shirts.

 

[Black Swan]

Swan, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are confusing the "tentative agreement" voted down by APA with the "transition agreement" (indeed a joint contract) voted up by the pilots of U and AWA. Apples and oranges.And the T/A on our property is indeed a valid and binding contract. Only thing is a Federal Judge just (re)affirmed USAPA's ability to negotiate to modify it, just as it could any other contract at any time. Of course membership ratification is required. And to muddy the water even more, our Transition Agreement was once a Tentative Agreement! Greeter

Yes you are correct. Blown call on my part.

Still think this deal is going to go on forever until someone at a higher pay grade makes the move to merge and collect all the fees that will result. Until then, appeals, litigation etc. Still believe the Nic is iced, and as long as the West is not harmed, and the non Nic is not the end all for harm, we will be fine. Hard to tell what the real sentiment out there is West. We get very few posters on both sides, and it is mostly the same. It is too hard to gauge what the real sentiment is as far as the majority goes.
This will be a three way deal, just as Parker said. He knows exactly what the path to the merger is. He has know all along. The DJ was just a stall, and an attempt to placate the West. Wait till the crew news, he will back this up.

 

[BLT]

In the event of a merger, I think USAPA will be able to go into negotiations and if necessary arbitration representing the best interests of all USAirways pilots to achieve the best possible JCBA within the context of it's CB&L's. It's not going to be the NIC, not unless the CB&L's are changed, because as it stands now, those are the parameters they are bound by.

I have no doubt in my mind that there will be unhappy pilots regardless of how it turns out and if it is done "fairly" there will be just as many, if not more, happy pilots. When you think about it, ANY SLI places nearly all pilots at something of a relative seniority disadvantage, except for number one.


seajay