OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nevergiveup]

That should get us to the end of civilization as we know it, sometime in December, according to the Mayan calender. After that, all contracts including the TA (a product of organized civilization) become amendable.

But seriously, I think the MOU is alive and well. When the NDA period ends the MOU will be improved and sent out for a vote - provided they decide to go forward with the merger.

Hope no-one has any late Dec. vacation!

 

[Ames]

I know you and I have traded jabs but this is a serious question that I don't know the answer to. If we have not finished our dispute over the Nic, will it be up to the APA do decide whether or not to use the Nic? The won't be the one presenting a US seniority list to the arbitrator, right? Seems like it will be USAPA's job to deliver the seniority list.

It seems like it would be the other way around. USAPA presents the list it thinks is correct and the west pilots climb the legal hill that they have been at for a while now. Not that I doubt they will.

I believe that it is ultimately the company's seniority list. Upon completion of the integration it was presented to the company and they did accept it in writing. The updates to the list are published by the company, not the union and adjustments are made by the company, not the union.

 

[Ames]

No it won't. The NIC resides inside the TA, which requires a JCBA between the East and West for it to be implemented.

Now, there appears to be some sentiment and or opinion being floated on this board from a few West posters, that an acceptance by the pilots of an MOU with the company would essentially constitute an "agreement" within the context of the TA and would be a "De-facto JCBA" which would trigger implementation of the NIC. I think that would be a BIG stretch, but something the BPR should address at the Special Meeting today or tomorrow, because if there is any validity to it (however remote), the membership needs to be aware of this potential "unexpected consequence" of ratifying an MOU.


seajay

You're right, that MOU idea is a big stretch but a joint contract with APA is not.

 

[nevergiveup]

You're right, that MOU idea is a big stretch but a joint contract with APA is not.

According to the MOU and term sheet, we won't see a joint contract for at least 4 years minimum. Perhaps I read it wrong. Hope so.

 

[Ames]

I'm honored beyond words that you would deign to engage in what you imagine to be conversation! Umm..One question though; is "ass" a step up or down from your otherwise effusive assignation of us all as "eastholes"? 😉 Don't fret over any four day trips. As much as I'm sure I'd thoroughly enjoy your insightful and elegantly expressive style....well...that just won't ever happen.

It's obvious that you read my post. Do you concede that it is possible for me to know Yeager outside of aviation? To answer your other question I do believe that you are a bigger ass than most eastholes.

 

[nic4us]

It's obvious that you read my post. Do you concede that it is possible for me to know Yeager outside of aviation? To answer your other question I do believe that you are a bigger ass than most eastholes.

Hey Ames....

Just because uncle Chuck broke the sound barrier...... does not mean he could flame Eastus in a dogfight!!!!

 

[nic4us]

You're right, that MOU idea is a big stretch but a joint contract with APA is not.

What the scabs keep missing is that the TA calls for seniority integration in section IV....under the header of "Seniority Integration"

The TA's requirement for a joint contract comes in Section VI...under the header of "Operational Pilot Integration". Under section VI the requirement is for negotiation of a "Single Agreement"...which at the time would have been assumed to be a single JCBA for east and West. However, that is not stated.

What is clearly shown in the contract is that Section IV...Seniority Integration...is completely separate from VI... Operational Pilot Integration...and by no means is contingent on the later.


Seniority is done folks...it is the Nic...it ain't going away, and the scab union is going to get DFRII shoved up their rear if the NMB releases and they go to the table with anything other than the Nic.......not for refusing to use the Nic,,,for intentionally frustrating negotiations of a CBA, for stripping the West of separate ratification and section 6 rights guaranteed under the TA.


Oh, and BTW.....usapa did inherit the TA...and the Nic....and the DFR owed to the West.

 

[nevergiveup]

What the scabs keep missing is that the TA calls for seniority integration in section IV....under the header of "Seniority Integration"

The TA's requirement for a joint contract comes in Section VI...under the header of "Operational Pilot Integration". Under section VI the requirement is for negotiation of a "Single Agreement"...which at the time would have been assumed to be a single JCBA for east and West. However, that is not stated.

What is clearly shown in the contract is that Section IV...Seniority Integration...is completely separate from VI... Operational Pilot Integration...and by no means is contingent on the later.


Seniority is done folks...it is the Nic...it ain't going away, and the scab union is going to get DFRII shoved up their rear if the NMB releases and they go to the table with anything other than the Nic.......not for refusing to use the Nic,,,for intentionally frustrating negotiations of a CBA, for stripping the West of separate ratification and section 6 rights guaranteed under the TA.


Oh, and BTW.....usapa did inherit the TA...and the Nic....and the DFR owed to the West.

You can hang a copy on your wall if you wish.

 

[luvn737s]

West pilots sitting in GOS (returning from leaves) in PHX were just asked to leave the room because USAPA wants to only talk with the east new hires alone. A few west guys asked to stay but were told security would be called if they didn't cooperate. This is a union meeting for east new hires only. Hmmmm.

I hope they sat there. Call security. USAPA's access to new hires in class is a courtesy and can be withdrawn at any time. There is no requirement to provide anything to USAPA including a meeting place. Let them rent space at the Doubletree.

This deserves Bob Skinner's attention.

 

[EastUS1]

Hey Ames....

Just because uncle Chuck broke the sound barrier...... does not mean he could flame Eastus in a dogfight!!!!

To ames as well. The typically punk-princesses-of-the-west responses I see. I've a great deal of respect for General Yeager. He fully deserves it. You and your pathetic little "army" of toy "spartans"?....Not-so-much...T-shirts not withstanding. You're the pitiful little punks attempting to make much of his ego. He deserves some ego. However much he feels appropriate in fact. You don't. Is that clear enough for you cutsie-pie, precious little tykes now?

 

[Claxon]

It's obvious that you read my post. Do you concede that it is possible for me to know Yeager outside of aviation? To answer your other question I do believe that you are a bigger ass than most eastholes.

What a tool.

 

[luvn737s]

Don't fret over any four day trips. As much as I'm sure I'd thoroughly enjoy your insightful and elegantly expressive style....well...that just won't ever happen.

So, you're out on LTD, eh?

 

[Claxon]

I hope they sat there. Call security. USAPA's access to new hires in class is a courtesy and can be withdrawn at any time. There is no requirement to provide anything to USAPA including a meeting place. Let them rent space at the Doubletree.

This deserves Bob Skinner's attention.

Oh, the harm. Sensitive little ones.

 

[luvn737s]

Hey Ames....

Just because uncle Chuck broke the sound barrier...... does not mean he could flame Eastus in a dogfight!!!!

Or Eastus' dog, the one with the "little cape"

 

[EastUS1]

So, you're out on LTD, eh?

Nope. I simply cannot foresee any future scenarios for me that will include your merry little band of jesters. 😉