OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

I too would like to know which rep said what and to whom.

I also have a daughter...and the strong words can evoke fearful thoughts....

However...actions speak much louder than words, and the actions of usapa in their scab campaign call for strong words. If this rep was a RICO defendant..I am going to call him and tell him at his next opportunity to address the APA president don't sugar coat it at all. Let everyone in the room know just how pissed you are, and that the successor to usapa will be held accountable if they even entertain the idea of supporting the usapa legacy.

What a B.S, C.S. response. But at least you responded. Prechill and fifi tucked their tails and ran. Probably best.

We can sit here and run our mouths all day, but our reps, especially in front of a potential merger partner should be held to a higher standard.

 

[EastUS1]

However...actions speak much louder than words, and the actions of usapa in their scab campaign call for strong words.

I see. So...any use of intelligence and decency is out of the question? Understood now.

 

[EastUS1]

I do not need to make any efforts....he did it to himself.

Do you actually believe he had a conversation with his daughter that she instigated regarding the meaning of "integrity"?

Funny thing about the witness stand.......when you sit there, you are under oath!

Oh!...I see now! Disagreeing with your group's pathetic attempt to jump ahead of people with far more years worked completely obliterates even the slightest need for proper respect for his actions on that flight? This kind of BS "thinking" couldn't be written into kids' comic books and even there, found the least bit believable!

 

[nic4us]

"what he said"? I guess you must have missed the part about "From your own recollections.."? Heck..supersonic flight could even be discussed with Sulley...but not you though? I'm afraid far too little in the way of common ground exists for furthering the discussion here.

Oh, I get it..you were trying to get me to state that I have never flown faster than mach 1.

Well, you should have just asked me that question, rather than trying to catch me in your intricately spun web.

Now we can all see the difference between you and me....

I ask a straight forward question..i.e. "did you read his book" I never get a simple yes or no, and still do not know if you actually read the book.

You spend a bunch of time trying to one up me and somehow call my knowledge and experience into question thinking that will discredit me to a bunch of non-cosequential web board lurkers.

Get real east....

 

[fifidriver]

We there goes the 2 ounces of respect I had for you. As the father of father of 3 daughters it is a word that is in the back of my head all the time and not one to be used lightly. I don't like "sumbag", but "rapist" is a whole different thing.

You are absolutely correct that it can have great shock value, but that is not always a good thing. Think of the times that one statement or one image can change history. The picture of the Vietnamese girl running naked after a napalm attack or the twist on Romney's "binders of women" come to mind. I know you guys think the whole world sees your group as helpless victims. Let me tell you they don't. Most I know look at all of us and shake their head. If this was told to the leader of the APA then I think it was a huge mistake.

I cannot believe you guys would defend that. If it was a slip of the toungue in a heated debate then I get it, but it should be acknowledged and apologized for .

We're going to have to disagree on this one... While I can understand your feelings on the matter, and sympathize, I staunchly defend the word, it's definitions, (not just the modern usage) and the user's right to free speech.

In my estimation, misplaced emotion and ignorance (not a pejorative, I'm using the word to make a point) are primary causes of friction in modern society. When a society bans words and actions based on arbitrary feelings that they could cause when the hearer is ignorant of all the meanings, we degenerate into we have today. I cannot speak freely at my workplace because with an innocent slip of the tongue, someone might be offended, complain and I lose my job. I cannot help an elderly flight attendant out of the van, because if I do not offer the gay flight attendant behind her the same assistance, I am guilty of "sexual harassment". I cannot even put an arm of support around a woman with tears in her eyes, who just lost her husband to cancer, for fear of someone else reporting me for "sexual harassment".

All this because we as society have come to believe that we have the "right" to take another's freedom, i.e. control their behavior because someone doesn't like how it feels when they exercise that freedom. I do not believe that these are the "certain inalienable rights" that our forefathers fought and died for.

Finally, I am sorry that your feelings are hurt. I was not there and am not privy to the conversation or it's context. And while I can understand a request for "sensitivity", I stand by my original assessment. I don't think that it's worth getting all worked up about, just because someone is not familiar with all proper usages of a word.

Cheers!!! Keep the greasy side down!!!

 

[EastUS1]

We can sit here and run our mouths all day, but our reps, especially in front of a potential merger policy should be held to a higher standard.

Agreed.

 

[EastUS1]

Oh, I get it..you were trying to get me to state that I have never flown faster than mach 1.

Get real east....

I knew that, which was the obvious point. How you believe that somehow qualifies you for a mutual discussion about his book or experiences seems a bit questionable to me....pretty much on the same level that your petulance about Captain Sullenberger's testimony "qualifies" you to seek his discredit for flying achievements.

Grow up and "Get real" yourself.

 

[fifidriver]

I don't place him in the same category, but it's very clear that only a west "pilot" would make childish and feeble efforts at denigrating him.

I never so much as pulled off a successful water landing in anything not intended for one.....Yourself?

Well since you brought it up, let's hypothesize... Do you or do you not think that you could successfully land your a/c on a calm Hudson river, largely bereft of marine traffic on a cold day in January, or wherever? It's a yes or no answer. No spineless bloviating...

 

[EastUS1]

We're going to have to disagree on this one... While I can understand your feelings on the matter, and sympathize, I staunchly defend the word, it's definitions, (not just the modern usage).......

Cheers!!! Keep the greasy side down!!!

" (not just the modern usage)"? I see, but must evaluate that notion in regards to all the incessant west BS about the east "living in the past"....? You guys flip faster than pancakes whenever it suits you.

"Cheers!!! Keep the greasy side down!!!" You too. Have a good day.

 

[nic4us]

What a B.S, C.S. response. But at least you responded. Prechill and fifi tucked their tails and ran. Probably best.

We can sit here and run our mouths all day, but our reps, especially in front of a potential merger policy should be held to a higher standard.

Let me make my point perfectly clear.

It is the West reps responsibility to inform the APA and their president that usapa has engaged in a deceitful campaign since it formation. That the very formation was indeed a means to that end, and that the usapa house is far from being in order.

Further, that there is ongoing strife within the association, and the problems most certainly will be inherited by any successor union.


I strongly suspect the West rep's statement were in response to the usapa point of view that had already been articulated at the meeting, and would have likely been in complete denial of the reality of the situation.


Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. I strongly suggest we just leave our emotions as parents and our daughters out of this discussion altogether.

 

[EastUS1]

Well since you brought it up, let's hypothesize... Do you or do you not think that you could successfully land your a/c on a calm Hudson river, largely bereft of marine traffic on a cold day in January, or wherever? It's a yes or no answer. No spineless bloviating...

"No spineless bloviating..." Ok, but you'll have to excuse my lack of the universal arrogance so well evidenced by yourself and your fellows here.

"Do you or do you not think that you could successfully land your a/c on a calm Hudson river, largely bereft of marine traffic on a cold day in January, or wherever?" I'd like to think and hope so, but I'd certainly offer up a fast, fervent and hopeful prayer for all aboard first, knowing that either providence or dame fortune must be there for it to come off at all well. Do you even have the slightest idea of how quickly and easily cargo category aircraft can break apart, tumble/cartwheel/etc during such a thing? Even that aircraft had an engine ripped off, and all were very fortunate to have that be the main extent of the damage. What if the wing had also? Must I suppose that any aircraft you would fly would, by magic and ego of course, be impervious to more substantial, random damage?

"It's a yes or no answer." Only to arrogant fools.

 

[Metroyet]

What a B.S, C.S. response. But at least you responded. Prechill and fifi tucked their tails and ran. Probably best.

We can sit here and run our mouths all day, but our reps, especially in front of a potential merger partner should be held to a higher standard.

how is your limited understanding of the word ANYBODY else's problem? In fact your cheering on of USAPA would actually make you a hypocrit.

 

[cleardirect]

A JCBA with the APA and USAPA, would not be a JCBA between the East and West. Something not even remotely contemplated by the AAA-AWA ALPA TA. That whole process is about to be totally "steam roller-ed" by today's reality. Not unlike Obama trying to get re-elected by dumping on Bush. Times have changed, moved on, bigger fish to fry and nobody cares who's feelings are hurt. We are talking about HUGE money here, very deep pockets who have lawyers to the moon.

AOL will be facing the legal teams representing the worlds largest Airline AND the lawyers representing the worlds largest Pilots Union, in Dallas not Phoenix. Good luck with that. Do you realize how many peoples jobs you are talking about messing with? I'm not just talking about pilots here. No way in hell, will you be able to get an injunction to stop anything, if this merger is green lighted by "the powers that be"


seajay

A joint contract between APA and usapa would be a single agreement. That joint contract would put both east and west on single agreement. So all 3 factors would be satisfied and the Nicolau will be implemented.

As far as going up against the largest airline and union. Better think about that. It would not be Leonidas fighting that battle it would east pilots. Single agreement, implemented seniority list and a very clear warning from the court to be very careful.

The APA understands what is going on here. They want nothing to do with liability or court battles over our seniority.

It really does come down to the Nicolau or loa 93. Any raise requires a single agreement . Thus ending the dispute.

 

[cleardirect]

The bigger question is, if it really happened, what are YOU going to do about it? There is no way I would hear a report about one of my reps saying something like that and NOT do something about it. Again, IF it happened, that is completely out of line and very damaging to ALL US pilots.

That comment of your's says all that needs to be said about your integrity.

the only damage is to your fantasy of forcing DOH. The APA has a very clear picture of what usapa is trying to do do the west. Yes trying to rape the west is an appropriate term.

Plus don't get all high and mighty and talk about what you you do if your rep did this or that. The record is very clear. NOTHING! Your reps are out doing true harm this the pilots and yet you. Let them go. Cleary did horrible things with the help of CLT and PHL and you did nothing.

Big talk little action.

 

[nic4us]

I knew that, which was the obvious point. How you believe that somehow qualifies you for a mutual discussion about his book or experiences seems a bit questionable to me....pretty much on the same level that your petulance about Captain Sullenberger's testimony "qualifies" you to seek his discredit for flying achievements.

Grow up and "Get real" yourself.

I can discuss the book...because I read the book. Simple concept, that discussing a topic would only require knowledge of the topic. All we have learned from your post is that you have flown supersonic......have you read the book or not?

I can discuss Sully's testimony because it is public record, of which I am also familiar.

The fact is...Yeager is an egomaniac, his autobiography is proof positive. He has the accomplishments to back it up,,,,way cool!! That is why his personality works so well for public consumption, and why people are still interested. He did a couple of interviews on Carson and put out great catch phrases..."it will ruin your whole day". I love the quote after his recent flight "I was scared to death".

You are simply trying to somehow discredit West input on this thread with absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

If Ames comes out and actually tells us how he knows Yeager, ( you said something about flying him once "in the back") you will likely look like an idiot.


edited by me to add...

I am not trying to discredit Sully's flying achievements.....I am calling into question his ideas regarding "integrity".