OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

My God son where have you been of couse it's going to be DOH. Everyone knew that, Doug does not care about the list he was able to delay negotiations for years while this went on, it was just a delay tactic on his part. I would be worried about be sold off if I was a westie, Doug will not let you come between him and running the largest airline.

What makes you think he will let a scab union come between him and that same goal???

 

[EastUS1]

Did not lose anything.

I really like that last one because this INDIVIDUAL is going to shove the Nic right down the scab hole usapa hides in.

Sigh! Sorry folks. I know this is old material...but it just seems plain and purely necessary at this point 😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

 

[luvthe9]

What makes you think he will let a scab union come between him and that same goal???

Think about it son PHX a losing operation, we have given you now up to 28% of our flying to try to keep you profitable. East is where it's at, where will we trim that dead wood you got it PHX? If we don't do it you can bank on AMR dioing it. You are insignificant. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Bill Brasky]

NIc4US,
Since you obviously missed it, here's the judgement again:

IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

Note, it doesn't ONLY say that USAPA can present it's own seniority proposal, but that a DFR doesn't exist, as long as it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. Not even language about a potential DFR. Plus the fact that she specifically denied any additions of language to that fact.

Go ahead, read it again if you want.

 

[Move2CLT]

Why can't you east guys read?

It takes a certain level of intelligence to read AND a certain grasp of reality to comprehend.

Easties lack both.

 

[nevergiveup]

Going to be boring here for a while. Better go feed the cows. I like the one that reminds me of Move, or maybe that's just the way he sounds.

 

[cleardirect]

My God son where have you been of couse it's going to be DOH. Everyone knew that, Doug does not care about the list he was able to delay negotiations for years while this went on, it was just a delay tactic on his part. I would be worried about be sold off if I was a westie, Doug will not let you come between him and running the largest airline.

It is not the west that is getting in between him and his merger. It is the bargaining agent. East pilots, usapa.

Take a look at the term sheet. It does not say anything about cutting the west pilots out of negotiations, but it sure does sit usapa in the corner.

You keeping telling us we are going to be sold off. Have you got a date for that or just more BS? Got the name of a buyer? Can't sell without a buyer. Just like usapa can't propose a seniority list without someone on the other side willing t pick it up.

 

[luvthe9]

It is not the west that is getting in between him and his merger. Take a look at the

IT"S OVER SON

 

[cleardirect]

We can read fine whereas you on the west can't seem to comprehend IT"S OVER.

Really! So has Parker accepted your PROPOSED list in the last couple hours?
Has usapa gotten the NMB to unpark negotiations?

This is a long way from over. You even thinking it is over tells me how clueless you really are.

 

[cleardirect]

Think about it son PHX a losing operation, we have given you now up to 28% of our flying to try to keep you profitable. East is where it's at, where will we trim that dead wood you got it PHX? If we don't do it you can bank on AMR dioing it. You are insignificant. Hope that answers your question.

Now if you really truly believed that the west would be sold off why the hard stand on DOH. Accept the Nicolau, get a contract quick and wave good bye when we are sold.

Come on put your money where your mouth is. How much faith do you have in your prediction the west is gone?

BTW in a merger with american. PHX is the only west coast hub. LAX has less than 100 mainline flights a day. Not exactly a powerhouse in which to defend the entire west coast.

 

[cleardirect]

IT"S OVER SON

Did I miss a vote for a ratified contract?

If it's over where is my contract?

 

[nic4us]

NIc4US,
Since you obviously missed it, here's the judgement again:

IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

Note, it doesn't ONLY say that USAPA can present it's own seniority proposal, but that a DFR doesn't exist, as long as it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. Not even language about a potential DFR. Plus the fact that she specifically denied any additions of language to that fact.

Go ahead, read it again if you want.

don't need to read it again....but, what you would have to do to convince me, or a potential jury is give me the usapa "legitimate union objective". If you can't do it it is a failure of the DFR. SCOTUS precedent holds that appeasing the majority to gain a CBA is not a "legitimate union objective".

Lets see we have Wake saying that getting out of holding yourself hostage is not a legitimate union purpose.

We have Silver saying that " a binding arbitration is strong evidence of a fair outcome" and that "usapa is on dangerous ground if it abandons the Nic".

We have the 9th saying "suffer the PAIN of an unquestionably ripe DFR once a contract is ratified" and also pointing out that dissent at the 9th, Wake and now Silver all agree that the TA is binding on usapa.

usapa lost...get over it...usapa has no recourse to appeal. Has no "legitimate union objective" to allow the majority to renege on the Nic. Is parked by the NMB and will likely stay there. Has an injunction over its head if the inmates get stupid ideas.


One more thing...the request for additions of language were requested to keep usapa from doing exactly what the posters on this board are doing, that is misconstruing the decision in the typical usapa fashion of "we do care, sue us, we won, hysteria that is entirely misplaced. We will have to wait and see what usapa says at the bargaining table to see if their position is the same as this board's, but do not look for that to happen any time soon, as there will be no bargaining table discussions if the company tells the NMB they are not ready to resume any talks with usapa.

 

[nic4us]

IT"S OVER SON

Far, far, far from over.

 

[Barrister]

don't need to read it again....but, what you would have to do to convince me, or a potential jury is give me the usapa "legitimate union objective". If you can't do it it is a failure of the DFR. SCOTUS precedent holds that appeasing the majority to gain a CBA is not a "legitimate union objective".

Lets see we have Wake saying that getting out of holding yourself hostage is not a legitimate union purpose.

We have Silver saying that " a binding arbitration is strong evidence of a fair outcome" and that "usapa is on dangerous ground if it abandons the Nic".

We have the 9th saying "suffer the PAIN of an unquestionably ripe DFR once a contract is ratified" and also pointing out that dissent at the 9th, Wake and now Silver all agree that the TA is binding on usapa.

usapa lost...get over it...usapa has no recourse to appeal. Has no "legitimate union objective" to allow the majority to renege on the Nic. Is parked by the NMB and will likely stay there. Has an injunction over its head if the inmates get stupid ideas.


One more thing...the request for additions of language were requested to keep usapa from doing exactly what the posters on this board are doing, that is misconstruing the decision in the typical usapa fashion of "we do care, sue us, we won, hysteria that is entirely misplaced. We will have to wait and see what usapa says at the bargaining table to see if their position is the same as this board's, but do not look for that to happen any time soon, as there will be no bargaining table discussions if the company tells the NMB they are not ready to resume any talks with usapa.

Did you not read her language about the TA. You are either a fool or stupid...if not both.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Could one of you guys answer this for me.

What is usapa’s leverage to get the company to accept your DOH proposal with those ah um wonderful but expensive C&R?

How are you going to get Parker to accept something other than the Nicolau when the judge said this?

Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.

Most people would take that warning very seriously. I am sure the company does as well as the APA.

As for US Airways, it must negotiate with USAPA and it need not insist on any particular seniority regime. But US Airways must evaluate any proposal by USAPA with some care to ensure that it is reasonable and supported by a legitimate union purpose.

Is it reasonable to place east furloughed pilots senior to west captains? Not when the judge says that an arbitrator did not think it was fair to put furloughed pilots senior to west captains.

[font="Calibri""]An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. [/font]

Usapa is going to have to first convince the company what that legitimate union purpose is. They are going to have to accept that purpose. Then usapa is going to have to get the company to accept the C&R that force the company to maintain X number of captain and F/O’ position yet you are telling us that the company is going to shrink or sell PHX. Now if you know PHX will shrink or sell but you are offering those C&R knowing they are going to be worthless. Not really a defendable position in court.

What leverage does usapa have to force the company to maintain one base and a select group of pilots when they will have 9 other bases they can move grow or reduce at will? How did SLT work out for the TWA guys? How does usapa defend that they are treating west pilots fairly when we are locked out of 9 of the 10 bases operated by American and that is equal to and as fair as the Nicolau? For the sole purpose of advancing east pilots over west pilots.

Or the company uses the Nicolau with no C&R’s costs no additional money and does not restrict the company from operating anyway they want. In Parkers world which makes more sense? As you say he does not care what order the list is. He just cares what it costs or how he is restricted. Negotiating cost a lot and restricts him way more than the Nicolau list does.

So is usapa willing to pay for the C&R with lower wages? I believe the judge talked about that at the oral arguments.

So what leverage does usapa have to get the company to accept usapa’s proposed seniority scam?