OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

I'm looking forward to the company's take on all this going forward. I suspect that they will continue to keep the pot boiling as long as possible.

Wow, something intelligent.

Hardly. The observation's both as banal and patently obvious as can be. Don't even pretend you would realize "something intelligent" if it ran over you in the street. Zone's but properly observing the historically evident here...which, come to think of it...well...you might well be amazed by anyway. 😉 Were Zone striking for subtlety or "something" specifically "intelligent"....My honest guess is that you wouldn't even understand what he said at all....

 

[traderjake]

But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award."

Is this everything the company wanted in terms of a "get out of jail free card"? No, but it is a Federal Judge's opinion that AOL would be unlikely to prevail against the company regarding a future DFR over a non-NIC SLI.

Nice spin, you left out the word "merely".

Nothing has changed except the court said the company is not off the hook for damages.

The 9th said USAPA could negotiate a different list if it did not harm the West.

We all know that is not USAPA's intention.

 

[EastUS1]

The 9th said USAPA could negotiate a different list if it did not harm the West.

While Ms. Silver's Court rules that a non-nic needn't necessarily be concern for a DFR at all. Did you miss that part Jake? Come on Jake...you're the last one of the pro-west I'd assume so willing to "play dumb" here, nor should you. Whatever our huge differences..you ain't no complete, blithering idiot. Don't start playing the part.

 

[traderjake]

While Ms. Silver's Court rules that a non-nic needn't necessarily be concern for a DFR at all.

Yes, exactly what I said, not necessarily a DRF "if" no harm to the West.

"at all"?

Are you a complete idiot?

 

[EastUS1]

Are you a complete idiot?

I like to think not, although I'm always open to contrarian arguments...of which "Are you a complete idiot?" must be noted as just a wee-bit dissapointing 😉 Did you overlook the "legitimate" reason/objective/etc portion ENTIRELY jake? Pehaps you can refresh all of our collective (and now clearly improperly focused, in your opinion anyway) collective conscience as to how ALL things MUST NEEDS, universally revolve around and pay no heed otherwise....than to the precious west group, whenever establishing legitimate union objectives....? 🙂

 

[traderjake]

Pehaps you can refresh all of our collective (and now clearly misplaced focused, in your opinion anyway) concsousness as to how all things MUST NEEDS, universally revolve around and pay no heed otherwise than to the precious west group, whenever establishing legitimate union objectives....? 🙂

Making a guy who was furloughed or a Reserve F/O senior to a Captain on the same airplane is not a legetimate union objective.

 

[EastUS1]

Making a guy who was a Reserve F/O senior to a Captain on the same airplane is not a legetimate union objective.

I'd suggest the C&R's would prevent that...but anyway...nevermind!...Silly me!...I DO naturally realize that throwing my juniors under the bus...say...like one with 17 years continuous sevice under some punk with a whopping 3 months on campus...well..THAT would be just fine as a "legitimate union" purpose....? 🙂 You now disappoint me Jake. I'd thought you smarter than this.

 

[traderjake]

I'd suggest the C&R's would prevent that...but anyway...nevermind!...

And you would be wrong.

If we furlough a thousand pilots how many would be East?

 

[EastUS1]

I'd suggest the C&R's would prevent that...but anyway...nevermind!...

You now disappoint me Jake. I'd thought you smarter than this.

And you would be wrong.

Clearly.

 

[EastUS1]

If we furlough a thousand pilots how many would be East?

How many would you prefer to be east....?

 

[traderjake]

How many would you prefer to be east....?

The number of East pilots in the bottom thousand of the Nicolau Award.

 

[EastUS1]

The number of East pilots in the bottom thousand of the Nicolau Award.

Would this indeed be your earnest belief were you in that thousand? If so, then fine. I could almost respect that...but talk's indeed cheap. Will you, should the Nic never see the light of day, surrender your position to a west pilot by resigning? If not....I think we're done here.

That last asks virtually NOTHING by way of personal sacrifice...not like you risking being boxed home in a Flag drapped casket, or even having a tax audit, a hangnail, or anything of the sort...just standing up, at a much lesser level, for your principles....So..would you resign and step aside for a west person....? If you really have any supposed principles here; how long would/do they EVER last under the sun's glare? I mean...seriously; what would Lt. Vincent Hardy in "Striking Distance" do? 🙂

 

[flyer63]

I didn't think DJ,s were appealable

 

[traderjake]

Will you, should the Nic never see the light of day, surrender your position to a west pilot by resigning? If not....I think we're done here.

What a stupid thing to say.

Good bye.

 

[flyer63]

Could one of you guys answer this for me.

What is usapa’s leverage to get the company to accept your DOH proposal with those ah um wonderful but expensive C&R?

How are you going to get Parker to accept something other than the Nicolau when the judge said this?





Most people would take that warning very seriously. I am sure the company does as well as the APA.



Is it reasonable to place east furloughed pilots senior to west captains? Not when the judge says that an arbitrator did not think it was fair to put furloughed pilots senior to west captains.




Usapa is going to have to first convince the company what that legitimate union purpose is. They are going to have to accept that purpose. Then usapa is going to have to get the company to accept the C&R that force the company to maintain X number of captain and F/O’ position yet you are telling us that the company is going to shrink or sell PHX. Now if you know PHX will shrink or sell but you are offering those C&R knowing they are going to be worthless. Not really a defendable position in court.

What leverage does usapa have to force the company to maintain one base and a select group of pilots when they will have 9 other bases they can move grow or reduce at will? How did SLT work out for the TWA guys? How does usapa defend that they are treating west pilots fairly when we are locked out of 9 of the 10 bases operated by American and that is equal to and as fair as the Nicolau? For the sole purpose of advancing east pilots over west pilots.

Or the company uses the Nicolau with no C&R’s costs no additional money and does not restrict the company from operating anyway they want. In Parkers world which makes more sense? As you say he does not care what order the list is. He just cares what it costs or how he is restricted. Negotiating cost a lot and restricts him way more than the Nicolau list does.

So is usapa willing to pay for the C&R with lower wages? I believe the judge talked about that at the oral arguments.

So what leverage does usapa have to get the company to accept usapa’s proposed seniority scam?

Because an east group will sue the company if he wants to force the nic, it goes both ways