OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fifidriver]

"Fairness" never has been, and never will be on trial. Even the God Child sully was absolutely, 100% useless as persuading a jury of his peers. This will forever be about one single issue. It's: "exactly what is the legitimate union objective" for attempting such a drastic, unheard of, desperate maneuver?

It's LOA93 forever until you and your Employer are summoned to court to explain their actions despite the clear and obvious warnings against doing so. IMHO, you are in an in winnable position. You have been since day one... When $eham really started milking the emotional cow.

If you get DOH ratified, you won't find a Judge or Jury at this point that won't see the most obvious DFR in history.

deleted... flame-bait. sorry.

 

[fifidriver]

There is more language. A union is not laible for DFR unless it act in bad faith or is capricious or arbitrary. Is DOH one of these.
Don't think you will find a single case so stating.

NICDOA
NPJB

May I suggest that you take the time to reference the legal definition of "capricious or arbitrary?

 

[EastUS1]

....Even the God Child sully....

Poignant little pieces like that truly put the finishing shine and luster on the west....ummm..."class". Nothing that is not nic or the west must ever be shown even the slightest respect.

The most amusing part in this case is that the same group loves to presume on what "the rest of the world" thinks, by way of said world's fantasized and universal support. I'm going to take a wild guess here that 'the rest of world" might be less inclined to disrespect Capt Sullenberger...but what do I know?...I'm not a nic-besotted westie....for which blessing I thank the Lord above. 🙂

 

[Black Swan]

In this case, DOH would be both capricious and arbitrary. There was an impartial arbitration that met all of the contractual requirements and produced a result. You need to justify going from Nic to DOH, not justify DOH in and of itself.

If USAPA doesn't use Nic, someone will sue them for DFR. Any list that consistently places West personnel below their relative position in the Nic is grounds for a DFR from them. Now, if USAPA we to create a list that places West personnel higher than the Nic (unrealistic, but this is the hypothetical that the 9th was referring to), they become a target for a DFR from East pilots. In reality, anything other than Nic means more lawsuits and delays to the implementation of a new contract.

I disagree. If USAPA uses the Nic, and they are not beholden to it- the East pilots have the same right to sue as the West. It s that simple. You will find insistance on the Nic will be perceived as real harm to the East group, and they will be just as quick to litigate. And this will also delay a contract. See the bind everyone is in? This is a total disaster, and there is really no way out for years. This thing will drag on until someone at AA or LCC in control who wants a merger forces the issue.

 

[Metroyet]

I disagree. If USAPA uses the Nic, and they are not beholden to it- the East pilots have the same right to sue as the West. It s that simple. You will find insistance on the Nic will be perceived as real harm to the East group, and they will be just as quick to litigate. And this will also delay a contract. See the bind everyone is in? This is a total disaster, and there is really no way out for years. This thing will drag on until someone at AA or LCC in control who wants a merger forces the issue.

The big difference is the fact the East would have no case and any East suit would be dismissed. It's Nic or loa93. You've made your choice for the next several years. No complaining about how far behind the rest of the industry you are. You wanted this.

 

[Black Swan]

The big difference is the fact the East would have no case and any East suit would be dismissed. It's Nic or loa93. You've made your choice for the next several years. No complaining about how far behind the rest of the industry you are. You wanted this.

You say the East would have no case. I say they do. When a West guy with a couple of months goes ahead of a guy with some 15 years, that would raise the eyebrows of any jury. You can try your relative magic argument, but I say someone can make a very good case for that being harm. Either way, it is not as easy as any of us think. Unless there is some meeting somewhere where this gets resolved before a court case, it goes on for years and years.

 

[Move2CLT]

The only conceivable reason must needs be the universal fear, dread and utter awe of the Great and Powerful OzAOL, from which all out east lose sleep nightly 😉

Now, if you'll excuse me; I'm late for my dally pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Nic.

Your circle jerk run late today?

 

[Move2CLT]

You say the East would have no case. I say they do. When a West guy with a couple of months goes ahead of a guy with some 15 years, that would raise the eyebrows of any jury. You can try your relative magic argument, but I say someone can make a very good case for that being harm. Either way, it is not as easy as any of us think. Unless there is some meeting somewhere where this gets resolved before a court case, it goes on for years and years.

Yawn. Give it a rest. No one wants to hear your 15 year crap. You lost on merit and Nic us still the list.

Get over it.

 

[luvthe9]

Just out of CQT. 350 a yr hiring for the forseeable future. Furguson better apologize to the guys he recommended to stay out of the recall.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Remember, this little tidbit is just as compelling to a jury as you feel yours is. This is NOT all about the West and Nicolau, this is East and Nicolau. And the Nicolau damages an East pilot much worse.



"Although pilots from predecessor US Airways agreed to binding arbitration on seniority, they generally felt so disenfranchised by Nicolau's list that they voted to leave the Air Line Pilots Association after 57 years and to create a new union, the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. The list's most controversial component placed a 56-year-old pilot with 17 years at US Airways, who was never laid off, behind a 35-year-old America West pilot with a few months on the job. In hundreds of similar cases, east pilots with 15 or more years at the carrier went behind west pilots with just a few years." This is a seniority issue that has left the Nicolau timeline far in the past. It is a new day, a new day with West pilots on furlough, and East pilots being hired. This is now your setting for your harm argument, and all the tenets of a Nicolau argument.
Also, Cleary attempted to broker a deal with Ferguson. He was rejected. Ferguson also rejected the use of Geo. Mitchell, Abner Mitvka, and Geo. Pataki in a attempt to work this out.

This is not just about the West anymore, the East group has a compelling argument for harm from the Nicolau. You are on a new stage. At a new date. Try and take the jury back there. It is very clear as time goes on that Nicolau was a flawed integration. Time has proven that very well. Look at where we stand now.

One only has to look at what "ALPA" is facing in the light of the TWA pilots, and their damages due to a slotted list! And the we have AIRTRAN, due to their slotting, The "NIC" a dead issue!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The big difference is the fact the East would have no case and any East suit would be dismissed. It's Nic or loa93. You've made your choice for the next several years. No complaining about how far behind the rest of the industry you are. You wanted this.

LOA 93 and our attrition, enjoy!

 

[Metroyet]

You say the East would have no case. I say they do. When a West guy with a couple of months goes ahead of a guy with some 15 years, that would raise the eyebrows of any jury. You can try your relative magic argument, but I say someone can make a very good case for that being harm. Either way, it is not as easy as any of us think. Unless there is some meeting somewhere where this gets resolved before a court case, it goes on for years and years.

The only thing raising the jury's eyebrows were the actions of USAPA. Actions that are now a matter of record. The jury convicted your fake union inside of 90 minutes after a two week trial. You refuse to accept the fact that the Nic is fair. Silver directly eluded to such.

 

[luvthe9]

LOA 93 and our attrition, enjoy!

Somewhere around 400 to 600 hundred for the next few years, east only!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Move2CLT]

Just out of CQT. 350 a yr hiring for the forseeable future. Furguson better apologize to the guys he recommended to stay out of the recall.

Also just out of CQT - luv is full of ####.

 

[Move2CLT]

Somewhere around 400 to 600 hundred for the east only!!!!!!!!!!!

600 pounds of chicken? Can you handle that round boy?