OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

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Hey, at the time of the merger AWA was stable and hiring 20 a month, like you guys like to point out, in the long run we needed the merger.

Got ya🙂


Bean

Yes we will be fine in the long run, "Project Zanzibar" ring a bell, your were doing great in your own mind, go ask Dougie. Got Ya🙂

 

[nic4us]

How's this merger working for you so far?

Really bad.....

2500 scabs stripped the airline of union representation and have forced us all to stay on bottom of the barrel wages.

I can tel by your smug post you are so proud.

 

[luvthe9]

Really bad.....

2500 scabs stripped the airline of union representation and have forced us all to stay on bottom of the barrel wages.

I can tel by your smug post you are so proud.

NO, I really wish we never acquired you. Please remember AWA was the KING of "bottom of the barrel wages"

 

[nic4us]

I think we are going to see a list passed that is not NIC. Then as the east and a good chunk of the west move on we will get to see AOL suing left and right. The process will take years more, by then the list in a stand alone will be so unrecognizable from 2005 as to make it moot. And I think in an AA scenario it will be even more futile for AOL efforts.

As I said a couple days ago. I truly believe that AOL can ONLY hurt the west from here out. But it is a near given that we will see the suits play out. So we will all see the final answer in 5 to 10 years from now. Anything prior to that is a pipe dream and we all know it since it takes 2 years on average to do anything through courts.

By the time AOL gets an answer the east probably is not going to care since anybody it effects big time will probably already be a captain or retired. And there is no way a court is going to bump and flush 15 years of upgrades.

In my opinion the safest course for west is to accept C&R's that protect the retirements on both sides. As long as they continue to want the east attrition there will be no answer until the end of the decade at least, and the west list will sit stagnent.

Your first sentence says it all.....you might as well have said, I think usapa is going to fail its DFR, get itself sued, and force the separate ops issue as long as it can.

The other issue, is you are assuming you can get a non-Nic ratified. AOL could pull the DFRII trigger prior to ratification and stop the whole process.

Let me make it perfectly clear for you.

You have exactly two feasible options.

1. Nic inclusive joint contract.
2. Separate ops.

The same two options you had 7 years ago. The same two options you will have 7 years from now. It is really that simple. The Nic is not going away...that is what is meant by "binding".

Further, many strange things happened at the latest BPR meeting. APA president Wilson spelled out the APA's understanding of successor obligation to existing contracts, and for the benefit of the audience, exactly when the APA owes a DFR to LCC pilots. The investment people shocked Parella, when they made it clear she had no understanding of how the merger went down, and West rep Scherff did the recall attempt on Hummel.

All should have been eye openers for any usapa member still thinking the little lawyer was right, "seniority is like crew meals" or have the false read on what the courts have been telling usapa all along.

 

[nic4us]

NO, I really wish we never acquired you. Please remember AWA was the KING of "bottom of the barrel wages"

Really, go ask scab Parella how the money was raised. While you are at it, ask her if she is aware that it is a failure of a unions DFR to unequally process grievances.

 

[luvthe9]

Your first sentence says it all.....you might as well have said, I think usapa is going to fail its DFR, get itself sued, and force the separate ops issue as long as it can.

The other issue, is you are assuming you can get a non-Nic ratified. AOL could pull the DFRII trigger prior to ratification and stop the whole process.

Let me make it perfectly clear for you.

You have exactly two feasible options.

1. Nic inclusive joint contract.
2. Separate ops.

The same two options you had 7 years ago. The same two options you will have 7 years from now. It is really that simple. The Nic is not going away...that is what is meant by "binding".

Further, many strange things happened at the latest BPR meeting. APA president Wilson spelled out the APA's understanding of successor obligation to existing contracts, and for the benefit of the audience, exactly when the APA owes a DFR to LCC pilots. The investment people shocked Parella, when they made it clear she had no understanding of how the merger went down, and West rep Scherff did the recall attempt on Hummel.

All should have been eye openers for any usapa member still thinking the little lawyer was right, "seniority is like crew meals" or have the false read on what the courts have been telling usapa all along.

Try to let go, the NIC is dead never to return, you living in the past. I understand now the 3 PHX reps are caling on the membership to slowdown and sick call over the holidays, I would be careful with that.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Your first sentence says it all.....you might as well have said, I think usapa is going to fail its DFR, get itself sued, and force the separate ops issue as long as it can.

The other issue, is you are assuming you can get a non-Nic ratified. AOL could pull the DFRII trigger prior to ratification and stop the whole process.

Let me make it perfectly clear for you.

You have exactly two feasible options.

1. Nic inclusive joint contract.
2. Separate ops.

Exactly what I was saying, the only thing AOL can do is cause option 2. The NIC is so bad for east movement that they would rather sit seperate ops on loa 93 than give up the attrition. The only ones that I have run across that feel different are the guys that will be retired or so close to retirement by the time it is figured out wont matter to them anyhow. (Very senior...most of them from the 522 gone in the next 5)

AA deal or non NIC is the only way I see for the west to get any movement in the next 5 years. Like I said above I really believe AOL can only hurt the west from here on out. Once the most senior A330 guys are gone AOL is completly screwed in getting any east guy to go for NIC. Everybody else on the list gets a huge bone job from NIC.

 

[luvthe9]

Like I said above I really believe AOL can only hurt the west from here on out.

100% correct.

 

[traderjake]

So stop your whining then, good for you. There's more to life than money.

Pointing out your lies is not whining.

 

[luvthe9]

Pointing out your lies is not whining.

You haven't pointed out squat.

 

[traderjake]

You haven't pointed out squat.

.... Kasher will pay.

.....the NIC is dead.

.....APA wants DOH with fences.

 

[cleardirect]

Try to let go, the NIC is dead never to return, you living in the past. I understand now the 3 PHX reps are caling on the membership to slowdown and sick call over the holidays, I would be careful with that.

Do you even know when you are lie anymore or is it everything out of your mouth?

The reps have NOT called for a job action unlike your east reps that do and got sued. Read the transcripts. CLT updates right there for the judge.

You could tell the truth it it would save your life.

 

[Beancounter]

Yes we will be fine in the long run, "Project Zanzibar" ring a bell, your were doing great in your own mind, go ask Dougie. Got Ya🙂

Luv, it's obvious it went over your head, like everything else. I'm agreeing that AWA needed the merger in the long run, just like I'm saying we need the American merger in the long run. Reeeeaaaadddd slooooowwwly, it might help, then again it might not. Got ya twice 🙂

Bean

 

[nic4us]

Exactly what I was saying, the only thing AOL can do is cause option 2. The NIC is so bad for east movement that they would rather sit seperate ops on loa 93 than give up the attrition. The only ones that I have run across that feel different are the guys that will be retired or so close to retirement by the time it is figured out wont matter to them anyhow. (Very senior...most of them from the 522 gone in the next 5)

AA deal or non NIC is the only way I see for the west to get any movement in the next 5 years. Like I said above I really believe AOL can only hurt the west from here on out. Once the most senior A330 guys are gone AOL is completly screwed in getting any east guy to go for NIC. Everybody else on the list gets a huge bone job from NIC.

Fine..you have made your choice.

Separate ops.

Now, just as soon as we determine that is the official usapa stance, the company and usapa will be sued in DFRII. I am guessing however, the company is just a little bit smarter than that, and they realize their low wage gravy train is coming to the end of the line.

AOL can cause a lot more than choice 2. Those two choices are usapa's constraints, not AOL's, not the company's, and not every individual LCC pilot's.


Just so I understand correctly...you are saying that the majority's opinion is that the union should abandon its DFR to the membership in order to force separate ops?? Is that correct??

 

[nic4us]

Do you even know when you are lie anymore or is it everything out of your mouth?

The reps have NOT called for a job action unlike your east reps that do and got sued. Read the transcripts. CLT updates right there for the judge.

You could tell the truth it it would save your life.

He would have to know the truth to be able to tell it.....

He does not, refuses to believe, and so,,,,what you get is made up flame bait.

No big deal....