OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Hey Pi, where's your name with CoC? You in for the win?

 

[nevergiveup]

Has USAPA ever really won any court case yet that would improve the lives of the majority of its membership? NO

Almost as bad as ALPA!

 

[N924PS]

Almost as bad as ALPA!

Parity plus 1% sounds pretty good right about now!

 

[Phoenix]

Not surprised. Our grievance chairman recently advocated hiring a team of lawyers to fight the company on change of control language in our contract that expired last June.

Wonder how THAT one will turn out. Let's burn up some more cash for nothing. Haven't we feigured out by now that Kashir is never going to take our side over the company?

Driver...

One great failure of pilots is to recognize that we now live in a post-judicial society, i.e. the judiciary (and any forums providing a recourse for resolving disputes) is incapable of making judgments without being constrained by the political realities of the outcome, particularly when it involves a potential tectonic shift of wealth (and especially when the circumstances and laws allow even a hint of latitude).

LOA 93 snapbacks was a pipe dream due to the unfathomable quantity of wealth that would have been transfered from the priviledged to mere laborers. The 3% was effectively in the same boat. CoC same thing.

And for the same reason, there will never be any great windfall awarded according to the Nic, not now, and not in the future as the tectonic shift of wealth required grows with each year that passes. Absent a voting block of epic proportions, such a redistribution of wealth is highly unlikely to garner the advocacy it would need.

 

[Move2CLT]

Almost as bad as ALPA!

Well, when you don't listen to ALPA National's advice and think you can outsmart a bankruptcy judge, you tend to get your asses handed to you.

And I'd say you've left ALPA in the dust when it comes to failure.

Just add that 3% grievance to your list along with DOH and your 90 days to a new contract.

 

[Move2CLT]

One great failure of pilots is to recognize that we now live in a post-judicial society, i.e. the judiciary (and any forums providing a recourse for resolving disputes) is incapable of making judgments without being constrained by the political realities of the outcome, particularly when it involves a potential tectonic shift of wealth (and especially when the circumstances and laws allow even a hint of latitude).

LOA 93 snapbacks was a pipe dream due to the unfathomable quantity of wealth that would have been transfered from the priviledged to mere laborers. The 3% was effectively in the same boat.

And for the same reason, there will never be any great windfall awarded according to the Nic, not now, and not in the future as the tectonic shift of wealth required grows with each year that passes. Absent a voting block of epic proportions, such a redistribution of wealth is highly unlikely to garner the advocacy it would need.

Ahhh, there's the projection.

Now where's that list I made a few months ago. I didn't add "political realities" and need to do so now.

 

[Move2CLT]

Buckle up boys. If this merger doesn't happen, it'll be LOA93 for the long term.

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]USAPA Merger Counsel Pat Szymanski told the BPR that “should US Airways or any other party appeal the Declaratory Judgment decision, with the backlog that exists in the 9th Circuit Court, it could be one to two years before a final ruling.” This could prevent the NMB to restart Mediator assisted Section 6 negotiations keeping Contract 2004 and LOA 93 in place where US Airways’ pilots would be bottom of the barrel employees for years to come.[/background]

 

[Keroseneuser]

Buckle up boys. If this merger doesn't happen, it'll be LOA93 for the long term.

Well on the plus side that will give plenty of time for the attrition to make the NIC a moot point. If the projections that the company made in the crew news about the newhire upgrades are accurate everybody currently on the east will be retired or captains in 5 to 7 years. The west...errr...not so much. But hey it will make the integration go much smoother then, only thing left to fight about is who gets what airplane since it will all be captain spot.....oh wait. Hmm the guys hired from now until then...they might be troublesome on getting a vote to pass. You know how the new generation is they expect to be captains in 5 years now a days. they may not like the idea of integrating the west! 🙂

Don't hyperventilate Move....the last part is a joke!

 

[Metroyet]

Buckle up boys. If this merger doesn't happen, it'll be LOA93 for the long term.

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]USAPA Merger Counsel Pat Szymanski told the BPR that “should US Airways or any other party appeal the Declaratory Judgment decision, with the backlog that exists in the 9th Circuit Court, it could be one to two years before a final ruling.” This could prevent the NMB to restart Mediator assisted Section 6 negotiations keeping Contract 2004 and LOA 93 in place where US Airways’ pilots would be bottom of the barrel employees for years to come.[/background]

This falls under the "No Sh•t" category. Loa 93 is going to be the retirement contract for a couple thousand East guys.

 

[Beancounter]

Well on the plus side that will give plenty of time for the attrition to make the NIC a moot point. If the projections that the company made in the crew news about the newhire upgrades are accurate everybody currently on the east will be retired or captains in 5 to 7 years. The west...errr...not so much. But hey it will make the integration go much smoother then, only thing left to fight about is who gets what airplane since it will all be captain spot.....oh wait. Hmm the guys hired from now until then...they might be troublesome on getting a vote to pass. You know how the new generation is they expect to be captains in 5 years now a days. they may not like the idea of integrating the west! 🙂

Don't hyperventilate Move....the last part is a joke!

Yeah, I can just imangine what LOA 93 will look like comapred to the rest of the industry in 5 years. Look at me, I'm an east captain making FO, no make that FA wages! Friggin' idiot.

Bean

 

[cactusboy53]

Many posters have repeatedly said that Hummel, Cleary, or other representatives have approached the West to discuss possible solutions. And many West posters have boasted that the West WILL NOT talk. The West position that they will not engage in talks because they don't trust there is a possibility to get what they want from such talks, is far different than saying no talks were ever offered.

Looks like another "ripeness" issue. Refusing to talk and find out what can be solved, and jumping to the conclusion that the talks will result in harm. You all should be very familiar with the concept of "ripeness".

USAPA is the ONLY collective bargaining agent. There is only ONE body of pilots. There is NO west or east as it pertains to USAPA. WE have been paying the SAME union for the past 5+ years.

NO WEST pilot (or any other entitiy / person) has the right or power to separately negotiate for the PHX based pilots as a separate entity.

Further, USAPA Constitution & Bylaws AND the UOM state that Date of Hire is the ONLY way do determine seniority.

You have been painted into a corner. Hurry up and see if you can get Dug to sign off on your DOH or DOH-Lite with a new contract.

Another LOSS for USAPA. Attrition at the LOWEST wages in the industry. You should be proud.

CB

 

[Keroseneuser]

Yeah, I can just imangine what LOA 93 will look like comapred to the rest of the industry in 5 years. Look at me, I'm an east captain making FO, no make that FA wages! Friggin' idiot.

Bean

I have a feeling we are going to see exactly that. The way parker acted in the crew news we may see that even in the event of an AA deal.

I have made peace with the fact that i will not receive a raise other than moving to a widebody until enough retirements occur that makes the NIC more palatable for the majority of the airline or the west agrees to a middle of the road contract. Not stressing over it, cars are late model and paid for, boat is paid for, only thing i owe on is my house. Frankly i am more worried about the upcoming election than i am anything going on at this company.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I have a feeling we are going to see exactly that. The way parker acted in the crew news we may see that even in the event of an AA deal.

I have made peace with the fact that i will not receive a raise other than moving to a widebody until enough retirements occur that makes the NIC more palatable for the majority of the airline or the west agrees to a middle of the road contract. Not stressing over it, cars are late model and paid for, boat is paid for, only thing i owe on is my house. Frankly i am more worried about the upcoming election than i am anything going on at this company.

Why? Regardless of who wins we will be $20 Trillion or more in debt by the time the next election cycle rolls around (assuming the whole house of cards is still standing that is).

 

[Move2CLT]

Interesting that when there is no luv that there is no Claxon or MM.

But when one shows up, all three seem to pop up.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Why? Regardless of who wins we will be $20 Trillion or more in debt by the time the next election cycle rolls around (assuming the whole house of cards is still standing that is).

Well we know the current head poobah can't get the job done. the only thing he can come up with is an exact copy of his speeches from 2008. Thats a great video by the way side by side himself in 08 and 12 saying the exact same thing. And biden has stated without a doubt that they are going to increase taxes by 1 trillion. That wipes out the "rich" only angle since a 1 trillion increase is far more than the rich guys make. So that leaves me and you as the next in line to get whacked, even on LOA 93 we make way more than Obama's "middle class" which averages 49k a year.

On top of that we already have a fairly healthy tax increase coming in 2013 with current on the books tax code from add ons in the healthcare law and Obama letting the bush cuts expire as well as loss of lots of deductions. So the way I look at it I know i am screwed under the current administration. Give the businessman a shot at it, he has to be better with money than the Civic organizer has been.

Other issues for me are the serious anti second amendment stance of Obama, the dude has a long long record of voting to wipe it away. Guess its the country boy in me, Funny how I never had the urge to shoot anybody but have been shooting since I was 8 years old. Apparantly according to the anti gun types I was supposed to clean out a post office or something by now.