OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Quite the unionist aren't you. As long as you get your it is fine with you.

Unions are supposed to benefit ALL members. Not leave a few or 1/3 or 49% behind just because the "majority" got what they want.

Quite the unionist aren't you. As long as you get your it is fine with you.

Unions are supposed to benefit ALL members. Not leave a few or 1/3 or 49% behind just because the "majority" got what they want.

Gleefully and/or simply spinelessly surrendering ANY potential leverage, however slight it may be perceived to be by some, does NOTHING to EVER benefit "ALL members" in any way, shape or form. If you're now suggesting that ever doing such benefits either east, west or both....well...I must hope that you safely strap in and restrain both your brain cells before flying, so they don't damage each other through any inadvertent, violent contact aloft.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm rich in a spiritual sense and I don't want a TV.

Every human being is rich in a spiritual sense. Comes with the territory, and cannot be changed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Phoenix said today: "UHaul, Nic4US, cleardirect, and traderjake all have their fingers crossed for a sucessfull recall. That screams much loader than any organized campaign or innuendo. Heck, the opinion of Nic4US even speaks louder than all the A330 and 76 Captains that put their names up on the ROCCLT Website."

Go ahead and poke fun at the recall. It will be the first in USAPA's history (and may not end up actually removing the reps.) Recall is the only way members can remove reps outside of the election cycle, so it is a just and fair method to hopefully change "disagreeable behaviours."

And to go out on a limb here, 1/3 of the USAPA members have NO benefit in a merger course of action that seeks remedy from change of control language, and code share protections. PHX does not gain anthing from that, were a "win" even possible. (a win would happen, but it would pyrrhic in nature)

Go ahead and joke, and have your upppity digs. Removing bad reps is no dfferent than removing ALPA, only this time it will happen with much more ease and a blessing by the union..of the process.

Bravo to the men and women that actually put their names on the recall site. Democracy in action.

Greeter

Not being based in CLT, the recall effort has been almost entirely off my radar. But I fully support the process, although it's none of my business what the outcome is. Unions tend to be very political organizations when it comes to internal affairs, and I don't think that fact is peculiar to unions at US Airways or even in the airline industry.

No matter what the outcome in CLT, I am grateful that the USAPA C & B-Ls ensures, even enshrines, full membership ratification into any decision of real consequence to the members.

 

[luvthe9]

Looks like Dave O Dell just finished up his A 320 F/O training earlier in the month. In Charlotte, of course. I would imagine he will be a captain on it within 4-5 years. Justin Bular and a bunch of other management sons also finished A 320 trng. Congratulations to all of them, and looking forward to them taking the left seat in quick time.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Looks like Dave O Dell just finished up his A 320 F/O training earlier in the month. In Charlotte, of course. I would imagine he will be a captain on it within 4-5 years. Justin Bular and a bunch of other management sons also finished A 320 trng. Congratulations to all of them, and looking forward to them taking the left seat in quick time.

In other words you fully expect separate ops and LOA93 to continue for at least another 4-5 years. Not holding out any confidence in USAPA's quest for a DOH JCBA?

 

[luvthe9]

In other words you fully expect separate ops and LOA93 to continue for at least another 4-5 years. Not holding out any confidence in USAPA's quest for a DOH JCBA?

Pretty much summed it up. Nobody expects a contract until some outside issue forces Parker. Separate ops. The pay raises come in the upgrades which are happening now. The junior guys are especially aware that seperate ops benefits them. They are happy to take the raises and upgrades. Do you honestly think Parker and co. will come to the table? The West is delusional about that. He has the best situation ever. He will continue to grow the East, and park the West. We know the West guys will scab, so there is no contract in the future for years. We all work for America West in reality. We know what they pay, always the bottom. That is the reality.

And the Nic is already finished. But lets' see the West try and argue it 12 years after it happened anyway in some integration or court that far down the road, after all the retirements and hiring. There is no way.

 

[cleardirect]

Pretty much summed it up. Nobody expects a contract until some outside issue forces Parker. Separate ops. The pay raises come in the upgrades which are happening now. The junior guys are especially aware that seperate ops benefits them. They are happy to take the raises and upgrades. Do you honestly think Parker and co. will come to the table? The West is delusional about that. He has the best situation ever. He will continue to grow the East, and park the West. We know the West guys will scab, so there is no contract in the future for years. We all work for America West in reality. We know what they pay, always the bottom. That is the reality.

seperate ops benefits them.

So much for usapa benefiting ALL pilots.

So if that is the case what good is usapa?

If they are not going to benefit the entire group let alone increase the working conditions for east pilots what the hell are we paying all this money for? You guys blame ALPA but if usapa allows this to continue for another 5 years usapa will be far worse than ALPA ever dreamed or was accused of being.

15 years on a BK LOA93. Is that what you voted usapa to do?

How long do you think those new hires are going to want to stay on LOA 93? They may upgrade but eventually $100 per hour to be a captain 5 years from now is not going to cut it. Besides are you guys not instilling to the new hires that "gold standard" of DOH? Would those new hires not want to correct the unfairness of having west pilots with many more years of service compared to a new hire?

You tell us that the arguments we make about relative position are not right yet you use the same arguments with the new hires. The "gold standard" is the gold standard right. Guess that core value of the east is not union or DOH it is get what you can and screw the rest.

Lie, cheat and steal that is the true core of an east pilots.

 

[luvthe9]

seperate ops benefits them.

So much for usapa benefiting ALL pilots.

So if that is the case what good is usapa?

If they are not going to benefit the entire group let alone increase the working conditions for east pilots what the hell are we paying all this money for? You guys blame ALPA but if usapa allows this to continue for another 5 years usapa will be far worse than ALPA ever dreamed or was accused of being.

15 years on a BK LOA93. Is that what you voted usapa to do?

How long do you think those new hires are going to want to stay on LOA 93? They may upgrade but eventually $100 per hour to be a captain 5 years from now is not going to cut it. Besides are you guys not instilling to the new hires that "gold standard" of DOH? Would those new hires not want to correct the unfairness of having west pilots with many more years of service compared to a new hire?

You tell us that the arguments we make about relative position are not right yet you use the same arguments with the new hires. The "gold standard" is the gold standard right. Guess that core value of the east is not union or DOH it is get what you can and screw the rest.

Lie, cheat and steal that is the true core of an east pilots.

Face it, the new hires will either stay, and take advantage of the massive upward movement over the next ten years, or they will take their training and move on to someplace other than the new America West. You had to have seen that at the original AWA. Guys left all the time. Once the other airlines start hiring, they will have multiple options. Parker will just hire more at low wages to take their places. You have to admit, he has a good plan. It is the same one he used before we got stuck with you.
Face it Clear, we are all going to be stuck working for the new America West. You signed on for it years ago, we got dragged into it.
It isn't lying and cheating, it was all legal. Just like a court appeal. Just because you were not too smart and didn't listen to ALPA when they warned you years ago that it was a possibility, is not our problem. They knew where you stood, and you were the dumbest guys in the room.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

seperate ops benefits them.

So much for usapa benefiting ALL pilots.

So if that is the case what good is usapa?

If they are not going to benefit the entire group let alone increase the working conditions for east pilots what the hell are we paying all this money for? You guys blame ALPA but if usapa allows this to continue for another 5 years usapa will be far worse than ALPA ever dreamed or was accused of being.

15 years on a BK LOA93. Is that what you voted usapa to do?

How long do you think those new hires are going to want to stay on LOA 93? They may upgrade but eventually $100 per hour to be a captain 5 years from now is not going to cut it. Besides are you guys not instilling to the new hires that "gold standard" of DOH? Would those new hires not want to correct the unfairness of having west pilots with many more years of service compared to a new hire?

You tell us that the arguments we make about relative position are not right yet you use the same arguments with the new hires. The "gold standard" is the gold standard right. Guess that core value of the east is not union or DOH it is get what you can and screw the rest.

Lie, cheat and steal that is the true core of an east pilots.

Well seperate ops does benefit them, the numbers don't lie, they will upgrade to WIDEBODY F/O with the pay that goes along with it as well as CAPt in 5 years, remember sitting behide a stagnant west offers them nothing, but 1800 numbers that don't bring anything to the table! In fact they have a pretty good chance of upgrading long before you! The EAST doesn't send poo in the mail, tie up a safety line or steal anyones SS#s and other personal info, This bid, "A NEW DAWN"!

 

[EastUS1]

Would those new hires not want to correct the unfairness of having west pilots with many more years of service compared to a new hire?

Not if they're cut from anything even approaching the same bolt of cloth you were, now would they? 🙂

Would the West pilots not want to correct the unfairness of having east pilots with many more years of service compared to a new hire? 😉

Keep those exceptionally fine jokes coming clear. You can always be depended on for some good chuckles. 🙂

cleardirect"seperate ops benefits them." Ya' think? Now...all you need do is sell them on the grand benefits they'd accrue through adopting your nic fantasy. Good luck! Umm....You perhaps DO realize that your whole nic-BS is based on "relative seniority"... and "expectations"?....Now THAT insane, arrogant BS couldn't POSSIBLY inspire ANY of the fast-advancing new hires to even consider the idea of turning around, with middle fingers raised, and telling you the very same thing...or could it?

You guys have for so long now, entrenched yourselves so deeply into your own little section of Fantasyland that I feel it timely to offer the following: "Reality!....What a concept!" Robin Williams

 

[Metroyet]

There is no way.

Wanna bet?

 

[EastUS1]

Every human being is rich in a spiritual sense. Comes with the territory, and cannot be changed.

Indeed so sir...and I ain't givin' up my TV's just to prove that obvious Truth! 😉

 

[luvthe9]

Well seperate ops does benefit them, the numbers don't lie, they will upgrade to WIDEBODY F/O with the pay that goes along with it as well as CAPt in 5 years, remember sitting behide a stagnant west offers them nothing, but 1800 numbers that don't bring anything to the table! In fact they have a pretty good chance of upgrading long before you! The EAST doesn't send poo in the mail, tie up a safety line or steal anyones SS#s and other personal info, This bid, "A NEW DAWN"!

Wait till the bid results come out, most likely tonight. That will be just the beginning. There is another bigger one coming on the heels of this one. Justin Bular and Dave O Dell will upgrade to 190 Capt in less than three years.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Pretty much summed it up. Nobody expects a contract until some outside issue forces Parker. Separate ops. The pay raises come in the upgrades which are happening now. The junior guys are especially aware that seperate ops benefits them. They are happy to take the raises and upgrades. Do you honestly think Parker and co. will come to the table? The West is delusional about that. He has the best situation ever. He will continue to grow the East, and park the West. We know the West guys will scab, so there is no contract in the future for years. We all work for America West in reality. We know what they pay, always the bottom. That is the reality.

And the Nic is already finished. But lets' see the West try and argue it 12 years after it happened anyway in some integration or court that far down the road, after all the retirements and hiring. There is no way.

I just think it's funny how on one hand the east thinks they won something big in Silver's courtroom or at the 9th but you are still resigned to being on a bankruptcy-level contract 10-15 years or more. The east has turned down at least $0.5 Billion in what the Company offered through Kirby and you could be negotiating a second CBA now to perhaps gain even more improvements but instead relegate COs to make less than what FOs make at other airlines and relegate the FOs to being the lowest-paid major airlines pilots in the industry, even lower than some regionals, especially on the E190s.

 

[luvthe9]

I just think it's funny how on one hand the east thinks they won something big in Silver's courtroom or at the 9th but you are still resigned to being on a bankruptcy-level contract 10-15 years or more. The east has turned down at least $0.5 Billion in what the Company offered through Kirby and you could be negotiating a second CBA now to perhaps gain even more improvements but instead relegate COs to make less than what FOs make at other airlines and relegate the FOs to being the lowest-paid major airlines pilots in the industry, even lower than some regionals, especially on the E190s.

Better to put the Nic in the rear view mirror than take the Kirby. Kirby would have been Nic. Ask any East pilot what that would do to his career forever. If it were the deal you state it is, it would have been taken.