OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

That is not reality.

What IS reality is that you can't force the nic into being and you now know that to be true. Other aspects of reality are that your side, after the nic was announced, routinely offered up such infantile gems as (you can't make this "stuff" up) "Booyooshaka!"..."It's OVER...Get used to it!", and of course "NO fences!"..."We saved you!" The unbelievable levels of childish arrogance and wholesale contempt, constantly exhibited by many of yours was (and yet is) nothing short of mind-boggling to see. How well has all or even any portion of that worked out for you?

Had the proposed C&Rs been put in place; your people could now be bidding east on their DOH, while no east people could be jumping in and displacing any of you. As it is?....The situation has provided an impenetrable fence the like of which none of you seemed capable of imagining...although you were, long ago, warned about the risk factor. No thought of ANY compromise ever came forth from the west after the nic announcement. We live with our choices...ALL of us do.

 

[EastUS1]

BTW so good of you to ignore the rules if you don't like them. ALPA was your union at the time. A MAJORITY of pilots decided what the policy was. You knew what it was and how it worked. Ignoring it after the fact, well, childish.

Even the UCMJ provides for an officer to disobey the orders of a superior in some select and extremely extenuating circumstances, none of which I experienced thankfully, but some have. Disobeying any order that is immoral or unlawful qualifies. Fretting over what mighty alpo's whimsical notions were never much concerned me in the least....much less..following any "orders" from them. USAPA is your union at the present. Do you feel the need to ask how high if they say jump? 😉 Spare us all the "chilidish" BS.

"A MAJORITY of pilots decided what the policy was." Thanks for the Joke of the Day! 🙂 Did YOU get any vote on that glorious "policy"?...I don't personally know ANYONE who did...do you? What supposed "MAJORITY of pilots" are you even talking about here, outside of Fantasyland?

cleardirect:"The courts have determined that usapa inherited that merger policy..." BS! Whatever your spin there; the courts have properly determined that the union needn't use the nic. What's your point?

cleardirect: "...so you can not care about it but you do have to live with it." I've no intention of joining in your faith-based little cult's delusions. Make it happen then! What are you guys waiting for? Meanwhile, back in the real world...have big fun in PHX. 😉

 

[luvthe9]

If you could honestly come up with any reason beyond " I have been here longer" it might be an interesting conversation. But your single factor is weak.

BTW so good of you to ignore the rules if you don't like them. ALPA was your union at the time. A MAJORITY of pilots decided what the policy was. You knew what it was and how it worked. Ignoring it after the fact, well, childish.

The courts have determined that usapa inherited that merger policy so you can not care about it but you do have to live with it.

Sure Clear. That is an outright lie. Show us the court decision that said that.



"Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is." 9th Court of Appeals

That is what the court said. Here is some more for you, to tamp out your lies.
Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

 

[luvthe9]

Nic and Clear are in total meltdown over the bid award. They are telling massive lies.

 

[EastUS1]

Nic and Clear are in total meltdown over the bid award. They are telling massive lies.

Hmm...Must be the effects of the peyote rituals. My understanding is that such often produce strange and mystical "visions".

 

[Zone5]

We all know what Silver said. What, pray tell, is the LUO?

How about a $40-60/hr pay raise or even the ability to escape from PHX?


seajay

 

[jetjok1]

Your single argument. Years worked.

Same old argument rejected by many arbitrators.

You ignore all other factors.

Just keep repeating it maybe someday someone will believe it. But you are going to be disappointed again in an American merger when time worked is not the only factor used.

Ok........good! But until then............

 

[prechilill]

Let's keep it basic and real here:

What can you curently bid or hold in PHX? Now then; what could your insanely inflated nic number allow you to hold out east? How many more years worked than yourself does the person placed just below you on the nic obscenity have? Are you truly that "special" a person that you somehow, magically "deserve" to be ahead of that person? If so; what, in your honest estimation, makes you all that "special" and "deserving"? If the only answer you can give here is some petulant variation on "But, but..St. Nic thought I'm cute!"...we've nothing more to discuss.

You want personally undeserved, insanely and artifically enhanced advancement over others in the same class and craft who've worked far longer than yourself...period! It's really just that simple.

Are we done with the "fairness" BS now? 😉

So, you agree fairness is subjective?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Nice try but this ain't Junior High School and you ain't coercing me.

Go ahead and threaten me, we'll see if you're guilty of union harassment.

I have no special position in the union other than what you have...line pilot flying the line.

Your on the web board and your answering. So far so good.

Calling me a liar and a cheat... well all I can say is that can potentially lead to a violation of the "moral character" issues under the FAR's.

I haven't threatened you, I've pointed out. We have disagreements, no doubt.

Your choice of language is poor, and your welcome to "bid avoid" and even tell the Chief Pilot you won't fly with "liars and cheats" and see how far that gets you.

Enjoy your holiday, D.E.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Nice try but this ain't Junior High School and you ain't coercing me.

Go ahead and threaten me, we'll see if you're guilty of union harassment.

"In the meantime, please do what you can to treat each other with respect and professionalism. We will find a way through all of this – let’s try to do so without creating wounds that will take a long time to heal. Thank you."

Doug Parker

 

[cleardirect]

Sure Clear. That is an outright lie. Show us the court decision that said that.



"Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is." 9th Court of Appeals

That is what the court said. Here is some more for you, to tamp out your lies.
Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

Judge Silver said it in her ruling.

Not a lie just the facts.

 

[cleardirect]

How about a $40-60/hr pay raise or even the ability to escape from PHX?


seajay

The 40-60 is what the east gets the west gets a lot less.

Try again.

 

[cleardirect]

I have no special position in the union other than what you have...line pilot flying the line.

Your on the web board and your answering. So far so good.

Calling me a liar and a cheat... well all I can say is that can potentially lead to a violation of the "moral character" issues under the FAR's.

I haven't threatened you, I've pointed out. We have disagreements, no doubt.

Your choice of language is poor, and your welcome to "bid avoid" and even tell the Chief Pilot you won't fly with "liars and cheats" and see how far that gets you.

Enjoy your holiday, D.E.

Does that standard also apply to false accusation of RICO and is theft?

 

[cleardirect]

"In the meantime, please do what you can to treat each other with respect and professionalism. We will find a way through all of this – let’s try to do so without creating wounds that will take a long time to heal. Thank you."

Doug Parker

Too late. Way too late.

 

[traderjake]

Calling me a liar and a cheat... well all I can say is that can potentially lead to a violation of the "moral character" issues under the FAR's.

I haven't threatened you, I've pointed out. We have disagreements, no doubt.

Your choice of language is poor, and your welcome to "bid avoid" and even tell the Chief Pilot you won't fly with "liars and cheats" and see how far that gets you.

I've never spoken to you and don't know who you are but free to bid around me.

Good luck trying to convince someone that saying "Santa is making a list and doesn't like liers and cheats" and "Anyone who reneges on a mutually agreed upon arbitration because they don't like the result is a lier and a cheat" on an anonymous web board is a threat.