OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Thank you.

You're welcome. Just because we vehemently disagree on this one matter does not mean we have to be disagreeable in everything.

 

[BLT]

I think you are missing my point:
Although were on LOA 93, the risk we knew we had without it was averted.

On the East:
The new hire pilots will get advancement that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The F/O pilots on reserve will move up to holding a block that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The F/O blockholder pilots will move up to reserve Captain that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The Captain reserve pilots will move up to blockholder Captain positions that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The Captain blockholders will move up to higher paying equipment giving them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The senior most pilots will retire off the list .... unfortunately on LOA 93.

However, those same pilots should be acknowledged that the commitment they made to us when they said that we would be in their position someday is definitely a commitment kept and honored.

We appreciate that.

On the West...stagnation and possibly a renegotiated minimum block hours if the company wihes to do so.

Who knows what the future holds?

We are working for the lowest wages in the industry and you are selling normal advancement as a pay raise. Great. We are f*cked!

 

[nycbusdriver]

After sleeping on it overnight I think a misinterpretation of what I was trying to point out was interpreted out of context.

I was hired at Piedmont in march of 1987. ...

Maybe my memory is a bit cloudy, but if you were hired in March, 1987, it seems to me that you started class after USAir announced its plans to merge with Piedmont (which my recollection happened in February, 1987.) The final merge took place a bit over two years later in August, 1989.

If I am correct, then all those rosy pictures those folks painted for you (in good faith) were more conjecture than a rational analysis of the situation. Once the BOD approved the purchase of Piedmont (which happened fairly quickly, as I recall) all bets were off as to where we were headed. We hoped for the best, and got what appeared to us to be the worst: Seth Schofield as CEO. The actuality of it was that Schofield was simply the first in a long line of successively worsening management teams.

And here we are without there having been any exception to that trend.

 

[BLT]

I think you are missing my point:
Although were on LOA 93, the risk we knew we had without it was averted.

On the East:
The new hire pilots will get advancement that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The F/O pilots on reserve will move up to holding a block that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The F/O blockholder pilots will move up to reserve Captain that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The Captain reserve pilots will move up to blockholder Captain positions that give them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The Captain blockholders will move up to higher paying equipment giving them an effectively immediate pay raise.
The senior most pilots will retire off the list .... unfortunately on LOA 93.

However, those same pilots should be acknowledged that the commitment they made to us when they said that we would be in their position someday is definitely a commitment kept and honored.

We appreciate that.

On the West...stagnation and possibly a renegotiated minimum block hours if the company wihes to do so.

Who knows what the future holds?

I'm sure the next seniority arbitration will go really well. I mean after all, we are getting raises. That should put us on the top of the list. $125/hr(with raises) versus industry standard. Oh yeah, we are going to knock it out of the park!

 

[end_of_alpa]

I'm sure the next seniority arbitration will go really well. I mean after all, we are getting raises. That should put us on the top of the list. $125/hr(with raises) versus industry standard. Oh yeah, we are going to knock it out of the park!

Look, I doubt ANY of us is going to be breaking any records for any contract we get in the future assuming any seniority solution comes forward the way I see it. If fiscal cliff occurs and next early spring looks negative AMR may remain in BK for a lot longer period trying to access the next round of labor cuts.

FWIW.

 

[end_of_alpa]

We are working for the lowest wages in the industry and you are selling normal advancement as a pay raise. Great. We are f*cked!

What else YOU got?

 

[Phoenix]

Look, I doubt ANY of us is going to be breaking any records for any contract we get in the future assuming any seniority solution comes forward the way I see it. If fiscal cliff occurs and next early spring looks negative AMR may remain in BK for a lot longer period trying to access the next round of labor cuts.

FWIW.

Fiscal Cliff. The next opportunity for managements everywhere, lets hope it isn't the biggest opportunity since 911.

Even if we had a seniority resolution, would we have a contract offer that could be ratified? The FAs have never had a seniority dispute and management doesn't seem willing to move off the idea of more concessions...

 

[luvthe9]

Fiscal Cliff. The next opportunity for managements everywhere, lets hope it isn't the biggest opportunity since 911.

Even if we had a seniority resolution, would we have a contract offer that could be ratified? The FAs have never had a seniority dispute and management doesn't seem willing to move off the idea of more concessions...

Exactly. Cleardirect and Callaway and especially Metroboy think accepting the Nic magically opens the gate to a new contract.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Speaking of fiscal cliff. If the MOU ever becomes an active issue again, lets make sure the definition of Force Majeure (among other things) is un-am-biguous.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Exactly. Cleardirect and Callaway and especially Metroboy think accepting the Nic magically opens the gate to a new contract.

There's nothing magical about contract negotiations. The FAs were about 50 votes away from having their JCBA be ratified. We all know that it took them abandoning their me too sections as they finally figured out the pilots were never going to go anywhere so long as USAPA remained committed to abandoning the NIC. Absent a merger with AA, both sides will go for TA-III at some point and who knows what the FAs will or will not ratify when that happens.

Accepting the NIC puts Management and USAPA back at the negotiating table. Without such an acceptance from USAPA, the NMB will most likely keep the parties parked as they too understand that there can be no JCBA so long as USAPA refuses to accept the arbitrated list in favor of bankruptcy era pay rates. The NMB cannot force USAPA to close out S22 with the NIC and releasing the parties to self-help isn't going to happen when it is going to take the 9th circuit ruling on the Company's DJ to settle the S22 question - a question that only USAPA doesn't seem to know the answer to.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Maybe my memory is a bit cloudy, but if you were hired in March, 1987, it seems to me that you started class after USAir announced its plans to merge with Piedmont (which my recollection happened in February, 1987.) The final merge took place a bit over two years later in August, 1989.

If I am correct, then all those rosy pictures those folks painted for you (in good faith) were more conjecture than a rational analysis of the situation. Once the BOD approved the purchase of Piedmont (which happened fairly quickly, as I recall) all bets were off as to where we were headed. We hoped for the best, and got what appeared to us to be the worst: Seth Schofield as CEO. The actuality of it was that Schofield was simply the first in a long line of successively worsening management teams.

And here we are without there having been any exception to that trend.

I think that is a correct recollection except that I believe the announcement was either late fall or early spring of 1988. It was ironic for me is what I remember. BTW I'll repeat what I said before that almost all the guys I flew with were great guys, it's just that I think depending on the side they were on they felt a contributory loyalty that acted like "rose colored glasses" if you can remember who had those!

I think the Colodny/Schofield genre were out of the league...without a doubt. Our management teams were, I think, trying to be all things to all people and to be sure the cool northern efficiency was lacking as well at the same time cool southern charm was introduced to the real business world. Kind of where fire and water meet.

 

[end_of_alpa]

There's nothing magical about contract negotiations. The FAs were about 50 votes away from having their JCBA be ratified. We all know that it took them abandoning their me too sections as they finally figured out the pilots were never going to go anywhere so long as USAPA remained committed to abandoning the NIC. Absent a merger with AA, both sides will go for TA-III at some point and who knows what the FAs will or will not ratify when that happens.

Accepting the NIC puts Management and USAPA back at the negotiating table. Without such an acceptance from USAPA, the NMB will most likely keep the parties parked as they too understand that there can be no JCBA so long as USAPA refuses to accept the arbitrated list in favor of bankruptcy era pay rates. The NMB cannot force USAPA to close out S22 with the NIC and releasing the parties to self-help isn't going to happen when it is going to take the 9th circuit ruling on the Company's DJ to settle the S22 question - a question that only USAPA doesn't seem to know the answer to.

It's a claim by the company that they don't know the answer to....hence the lawsuit.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It's a claim by the company that they don't know the answer to....hence the lawsuit.

The Company is maintaining neutrality when it comes to seniority list integration while also steadfastly refusing to accept any list that would place them in in legal jeopardy for violating the terms of a collective bargaining agreement. Management didn't blink before accepting the NIC in December 2007 and paid the parties for completing that section of the TA. After five years they still will not accept any other list from USAPA but instead brought a DJ suit to prevent USAPA from forcing a list on them via the NMB which would expose them to substantial collusion liability. So they accepted an attributed list without pause and have refused to accept a substituted list even though not accepting USAPA's list also places them in financial harm if the NMB released the parties. Do you really think they (Siegel) don't understand the RLA and federal law well enough to predict what the outcome would be in general terms if they accepted USAPA's proposed list?

 

[signals]

Has anybody put Move's picture on a milk carton under the caption:
HAVE YOU SEEN THIS @$$#*!3!

 

[luvthe9]

Has anybody put Move's picture on a milk carton under the caption:
HAVE YOU SEEN THIS @$$#*!3!

Somebody saw him around Davidson NC. He had to take another job to Move2Clt....

​

[background=rgb(187, 187, 187)]

[/background]​