OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

Why do you care you do not work here.

But yes union resources are being used. Government affairs committee. Comm committee. Legal.

Dues money not assessment.

Neither of those committees are involved. Why was america west the only airline without a pension plan?

 

[Beancounter]

Well at least this time you did not mail your release to USAPA headquarters, from your (airplane slang) head quarters.

Claxon, what are you talking about? Dude, I think you need to hit that big red button and tell the nurse you've missed your meds. It's hard to understand the gibberish when your drooling all over yourself and mumbling.

Bean

 

[Claxon]

Claxon, what are you talking about? Dude, I think you need to hit that big red button and tell the nurse you've missed your meds. It's hard to understand the gibberish when your drooling all over yourself and mumbling.

Bean

I referring to the america west pilots that sent excrement to USAPA headquarters after USAPA was voted in by the pilots to be their representative.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Oh, I get what you were trying to say. Lookee at us, we have MOVEMENT! Yes, we get it. You also have LOA93! Renegotiate minimum block hours, now there's a hollow threat. You can threaten all you want and it still won't get you a new contract and DOH. What is it you guys are so afraid of?

Bean

I'm not sure what you're referring to when asking us what we're afraid of.

We know we have LOA 93. I can't predict what exactly the future holds...nobody can. Maybe you think we're afraid of the future? I can only tell you that if the future is what we've had for the past five years then that fear has come and gone along time ago.

It is what it is and we all have to accept it and move on. The certainly I live with is LOA 93 for at least five more years. What you should be contemplating is what effect the next five years will have on the West careers.

Capeche?

 

[Beancounter]

I referring to the america west pilots that sent excrement to USAPA headquarters after USAPA was voted in by the pilots to be their representative.

Thanks for the clarification. Not my style. I'm more the, paying my dues with rolls of quarters mailed in an enima bag, type🙂

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

I'm not sure what you're referring to when asking us what we're afraid of.

We know we have LOA 93. I can't predict what exactly the future holds...nobody can. Maybe you think we're afraid of the future? I can only tell you that if the future is what we've had for the past five years then that fear has come and gone along time ago.

It is what it is and we all have to accept it and move on. The certainly I live with is LOA 93 for at least five more years. What you should be contemplating is what effect the next five years will have on the West careers.

Capeche?

Why worry? Either:

1) Separate ops in sunny PHX
or
2) Merger, new contract and the NIC

I'll leave the fantasy dreams of DOH, new contracts, west sell offs, and sugar plums to you easties.

Bean

P.S. Santa knows if you've been negligent or nice🙂

 

[end_of_alpa]

Why worry? Either:

1) Separate ops in sunny PHX
or
2) Merger, new contract and the NIC

I'll leave the fantasy dreams of DOH, new contracts, west sell offs, and sugar plums to you easties.

Bean

P.S. Santa knows if you've been negligent or nice🙂

It's sunny in CLT, DCA & PHL, too.

Who said anyone was worrying?

Enjoy the holidays.

 

[Black Swan]

Your characterization of Mr. Parker's demeanor at that meeting is completely wrong. We all saw it. He looked more puzzled than concerned at the stuff Witt was saying. In fact, EVERYBODY was puzzled as the ridiculous Witt presentation amounted to basically nothing, with few empty threats thrown in for dramatic effect. Parker looked a bit incredulous when Witt finally explained WTF he was talking about. What did he expect Parker to do? Break down and confess to the Kennedy assassination and the LIndbergh kidnapping under his relentless grilling?

Let's all remember that Mr. Parker is the head of a totally different corporation than the one that mismanaged our pension funds. He took the helm of the re-organized US Airways a full 2 1/2 years after the ALPA MEC gave away what was left of the pension in the dark of night.

Trying to intimidate Parker over this makes us look like fools who can't read a calendar, nor understand history.

That being said, maybe Parker could help find documents if the Crystal City paperwork actually made it to Tempe. My guess is that the court will find that these documents don't even exist anymore because they were "accidentally" trashed/shredded during the move. How convenient.

I did not see Witt. Did not view the crew news as it is merely a sideshow. Did Witt tell Parker there would be publication shortly of pension information? I heard he did, and apparently it was meant for shock value. Aparently Witt is credible in that the Forbes article came later, when he said it would.
I think we need to keep this thing going. I personally believe AW management and Airways mgt were in talks prior to the announced date, much earlier. I would imagine Parker was aware of the disparity in compensation of all employee groups, and the outstanding pension issues. It would be expected he would, and have to have a plan for dealing with them-good or bad.
It is documented in the Seabury Group discussions the merger talk was going on earlier than all of us knew. At least a year prior. Their discussions also revolved around the USAirways pilots pension plan, and it being an obstacle.
I find it interesting the other employee groups compensation with regard to hourly wage, especially the f/a group. mirrors the AW group scale. Correct me if I am wrong. To me, this suggests Parker was involved with this issue, at least he knew. He had to be aware of the pension issue. Whether or not he had any impact on it is another matter. Perhaps more will come out. There were a multitude of of discussions with regard to labor prior to the merger. Again, my opinion.

From Stocklobster

"Even before the second bankruptcy filing of 2004, one of the alternatives US Airways Group explored was a possible merger with America West, as the two airlines had complementary networks and similar labor costs. The parties held preliminary discussions and conducted due diligence from February through July 2004. Ultimately, these talks ended due to issues related to labor, pension, and benefit costs. By December 2004, US Airways had cut labor costs significantly. Its investment adviser, the Seabury Group, suggested putting the airline up for sale. The following month, US Airways Group and America West Holdings resumed their discussions."

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The cost of holdings one's breath with their eyes and ears closed it becoming readily apparent. Sooner or latter folks will question if such a strategy is worth the cost.

Do the math BEAN, we have no F/0's at these LOA 93 CAPT rates, and DUI will never put enough money on the table for the EAST to ratify, Have you checked your relative position today?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I did not see Witt. Did not view the crew news as it is merely a sideshow. Did Witt tell Parker there would be publication shortly of pension information? I heard he did, and apparently it was meant for shock value. Aparently Witt is credible in that the Forbes article came later, when he said it would.
I think we need to keep this thing going. I personally believe AW management and Airways mgt were in talks prior to the announced date, much earlier. I would imagine Parker was aware of the disparity in compensation of all employee groups, and the outstanding pension issues. It would be expected he would, and have to have a plan for dealing with them-good or bad.
It is documented in the Seabury Group discussions the merger talk was going on earlier than all of us knew. At least a year prior. Their discussions also revolved around the USAirways pilots pension plan, and it being an obstacle.
I find it interesting the other employee groups compensation with regard to hourly wage, especially the f/a group. mirrors the AW group scale. Correct me if I am wrong. To me, this suggests Parker was involved with this issue, at least he knew. He had to be aware of the pension issue. Whether or not he had any impact on it is another matter. Perhaps more will come out. There were a multitude of of discussions with regard to labor prior to the merger. Again, my opinion.

From Stocklobster

"Even before the second bankruptcy filing of 2004, one of the alternatives US Airways Group explored was a possible merger with America West, as the two airlines had complementary networks and similar labor costs. The parties held preliminary discussions and conducted due diligence from February through July 2004. Ultimately, these talks ended due to issues related to labor, pension, and benefit costs. By December 2004, US Airways had cut labor costs significantly. Its investment adviser, the Seabury Group, suggested putting the airline up for sale. The following month, US Airways Group and America West Holdings resumed their discussions."

IMHO, walks like a duck!, regardless if there is any monetary gain from this or not , it needs to be pursued!

 

[Beancounter]

Do the math BEAN, we have no F/0's at these LOA 93 CAPT rates, and DUI will never put enough money on the table for the EAST to ratify, Have you checked your relative position today?

Are you sure you're not Claxon? "no F/O's at these LOA CAPT rates,"??? Did you get a new contract? You're on LOA93!!! The industry is moving on up. Just ignore the real world outside though, because: Waahooooo, you're upgrading to captain on a regional airline contrac!. Time to upgrade that double wide! You guys crack me up🙂 I feel sorry for the east pilots with an IQ over 50, that have to witness this stupidity up close.

Bean

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Are you sure you're not Claxon? "no F/O's at these LOA CAPT rates,"??? Did you get a new contract? You're on LOA93!!! The industry is moving on up. Just ignore the real world outside though, because: Waah attatchedooooo, you're upgrading to captain on a regional airline contrac!. Time to upgrade that double wide! You guys crack me up🙂 I feel sorry for the east pilots with an IQ over 50, that have to witness this stupidity up close.

Bean

Keep that humor!, If you haven't noticed, your trailor is attached!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Worse?

It is all relative. The Left column will get better and the Right column will stay the same. ( The Right will only be worse in a relative sense as the Left gets better). I think we should be cleardirect about it.

The DOH on the Left column will continue to be more junior with each passing bid, eventually matching the DOH on the Right column because the Right will remain virtually stagnant, according to Doug.

As time passes, the DOH of both sides will be become virtually equal because separate ops forces favorable attrition, new wide bodies, and hiring, on the Left, vs. stagnation on the Right.

The DOH will become equal but the value of the respective positions will remain just as unequal as they are today. No one on the Left would be willing to swap positions with those on the Right now, and that won't change with time.

The Left holds to its current opinion and gets positive gains. The Right holds to its opinion and hopes to someday get a court to award damages, over an internal union dispute, in which they refuse to discuss for a resolution.

The Risk is all on the RIght, and it increases rapidly from here on out.

Caveats: The West is free to adjust the positions on the Right if they want to add clarity, especially if the want to add info on junior line holder DOH. The info is from the 2011 West seniority list and may be slightly different today. Additionally, the effects of a Nic bid would be slightly less dramatic than the current bids that are completed only with pilots in the Left column, rather than all USAPA pilots.

Why the NIC will never float!

 

[EastUS1]

I feel sorry for the east pilots with an IQ over 50, that have to witness this stupidity up close.

"...pilots with an IQ over 50, that have to witness this stupidity up close." ?

There's more than ample reason for mutual concern in that regard........just sayin'.....

 

[nic4us]

Silver denied the company's latest motion to reconsider.

The company has until Jan 03, 2013 to file an appeal with the 9th.


Going in front of the 9th again might be a huge mistake on the company's part, so no prediction from me whether they will file or not.