pay raise

[odie01]

.
800, and did you actually see a pile of 800 applications? 800 was the same figure they threw out for JFK yet they still felt they had to start the guys on the third step. Why is that? I me an the company says they won't offer Geo but they are hiring guys in NY 1 at the third step. With 800 guys all looking to fill just 40 slots why pay the third step? Isn't it amazing how there seems to be 800mechanics looking for work in every city? Funny thing is nearly all the guys that they hired came from other jobs on the field. Some came from Non union companies like Delta, Jet Blue and other small operations, I'm assuming many work both places.

Maybe it's more like AA got 800 applications total, for the whole system and what does it take to get and fill out an application? Not much, just go on line and get one. I know management at JFK was complaining that they were having a problem getting people they felt could do the job.

Let's also not lose sight of the fact that the same people who told us all about the "white spaces" are telling us about the 800 applications they have.

Getting the company to come to the table isn't a problem, getting them to bring something is. Why should they bring anything to the table if they know that they have a senior work group, meaning we are less likely to leave, and there is no threat of strikes or other job actions, simply put why should they bring anything to the table when they are getting what they want? If we get released the field is leveled, if they don't bring something to the table within 30 days we can take steps to make sure they aren't getting what they want, from ot bans, to one day strikes to all out strikes and whatever else we deem necessary . Sure the company can retaliate, but what will that result in, intensified hostilities, more bad press, more book away and even worse performance. Just the announcement of a release puts some pressure on the company as people book away. That may not be much of a concern with record load factors but it's still not what any airline wants. The reason for a release is not to get to a strike, it's to put pressure on both sides to reach an agreement, right now there is zero pressure on the company to offer anything, but inflation puts pressure on us to get something. The company loses nothing by waiting, getting released takes that advantage away.

Bob,
Help us help you.
Provide the list of names who voted NOT to be released, and we will put pressure on them!

 

[eolesen]

Even if AA had 800 applicants systemwide, that's a far cry from what Bob has been saying for the past two years (i.e. that there are no applicants out there).

With 9.2% nationwide unemployment, I seriously doubt that it would be difficult for AAR or ST to find applicants willing to leave high cost of living places where they're barely making ends meet and stuck with a house that is upside down or already in foreclosure proceedings.

 

[kma]

Name one, or even sevaral MRO's that could handle the volume of work AA has.

Com-on people , think about what happen with united in indy. major OH base. ual declares bk . walks away from heavy maint. guess what .. AAR moves into indy facilities. hires some of the laid off ual mechs.AAR works on ual metal. it could happen again at AA. The facilities exist at AFW and Tulsa. no need for MRO's to pick up any AA work..Whatever entity takes over in TULSA and AFW will find TECHS. no prob. people will work for less to have a job. maybe not the hard heads in N.Y. But their a minority.
B.O. is a spindoctor. one day strikes, shutdown O.T. when has that ever worked in recent history..besides you won't get 100% participation...never..
The great AMFA tried to strike nwa... wow ..that worked out well for them. not!!!
B.O. 's facts are suspect. Speculation his forte.
Yeah so AA revenue's been up. whens the last time they reported a profit ???There's a reason AMR is at $3.5 a share. The big money on wall street smells a rat.
so.. put that in your pipe and smoke it !!!!

 

[kma]

Even if AA had 800 applicants systemwide, that's a far cry from what Bob has been saying for the past two years (i.e. that there are no applicants out there).

With 9.2% nationwide unemployment, I seriously doubt that it would be difficult for AAR or ST to find applicants willing to leave high cost of living places where they're barely making ends meet and stuck with a house that is upside down or already in foreclosure proceedings.

Right on brother.. thats what i'm talking about...exactly.. I agree with it all... this is reality !!
B.O. just likes to run his mouth...

 

[imwithstupid]

Does this Bob guy have any respect from the rest of the negotiators. If he did would he not be able to convince the negotiators that the TWU already asked to be released. Now they take a vote and don't want to be released, why?
1. the company now will sit with us and negotiate knowing we will not want to be released.
2. we voted no and gave the union the power to take us out on stryke.
3. how can they takes us out on stryke when they ask not to be released.
4. the membership is confused.
5. who is in charge

 

[787nightmare]

I believe that mechanics are going to hard to find. At Tulsa, in particular hangar 1D, out of the 120 or so mechanics now on Light C's , 30-40 % are new from the OSM class and we are still shorthanded. The lack of experience and the lack of hangar space in Tulsa is alarming for the yields of the 757 and 737 fleets. 737 is going to start 1 or 2 new Light C lines in the near future and sometime in January, some of the heavies will come due. If hangar space and available mechanics in the industry I think the company would have no choice but to farm work out. The union appears to have stopped the farm out of the 757's for now.

That's what I basically heard too Buck. I was told (by a Supv I know in TULE)that several of the new hires for TULE didn't have near the "heavy" experience AA was seeking.
It's also the chief reason the TUL AMT external posting was left up on the AA job board for far longer than was typical.(I suspected, he basically confirmed) American just wasn't getting what they wanted in candidates-at least for TULE.

There's a lot more I've found out, (amazing anal HR policys & outsourced candidate processing pathetic, unprofessional as hell), best stop I guess.

 

[Buck]

Does this Bob guy have any respect from the rest of the negotiators. If he did would he not be able to convince the negotiators that the TWU already asked to be released. Now they take a vote and don't want to be released, why?
1. the company now will sit with us and negotiate knowing we will not want to be released.
2. we voted no and gave the union the power to take us out on stryke.
3. how can they takes us out on stryke when they ask not to be released.
4. the membership is confused.
5. who is in charge

The TWU International or the company, who is in charge of them........

 

[Hopeful]

Does this Bob guy have any respect from the rest of the negotiators. If he did would he not be able to convince the negotiators that the TWU already asked to be released. Now they take a vote and don't want to be released, why?
1. the company now will sit with us and negotiate knowing we will not want to be released.
2. we voted no and gave the union the power to take us out on stryke.
3. how can they takes us out on stryke when they ask not to be released.
4. the membership is confused.
5. who is in charge

Bottom line is that the GOOD OL boys don't want that DAMN YANKEE FROM NEW YALK TELLING US COWBOYS WHAT IS BEST FOR US HEEER IN TULSA!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[strikeforce]

Getting the company to come to the table isn't a problem, getting them to bring something is. Why should they bring anything to the table if they know that they have a senior work group, meaning we are less likely to leave, and there is no threat of strikes or other job actions, simply put why should they bring anything to the table when they are getting what they want? If we get released the field is leveled, if they don't bring something to the table within 30 days we can take steps to make sure they aren't getting what they want, from ot bans, to one day strikes to all out strikes and whatever else we deem necessary . Sure the company can retaliate, but what will that result in, intensified hostilities, more bad press, more book away and even worse performance. Just the announcement of a release puts some pressure on the company as people book away. That may not be much of a concern with record load factors but it's still not what any airline wants. The reason for a release is not to get to a strike, it's to put pressure on both sides to reach an agreement, right now there is zero pressure on the company to offer anything, but inflation puts pressure on us to get something. The company loses nothing by waiting, getting released takes that advantage away.

Bob, we're not getting released! AA will not bring anything to the table, right?? What's the plan, Bob???? Tell us???

 

[Super FLUF]

Jake Kane did not put us on ice, he said that there was no point in further sessions at this time , according to their flow chart we should be released. I feel we should request to be released others feel we should continue talking, I don't mind talking but I would prefer to do it on a level playing field, with the clock ticking.

The process has become incredibly politicized. Apparently, the 3 labor groups have a certain pecking order to be either slated for release or parked. I know the pilot's negotiations are down to the last couple of large items (such as pay and scope), and we are a galaxy apart on those. It is obvious that we will never hash it out at the table. Even with that in mind, people with direct contact with the NMB have told me we still may not get released because "the government (NMB) is concerned about AA's financial state."

In other words, it doesn't matter a hill of beans whether or not you are at a complete impasse. The bought-and-paid-for NMB will collude with management to delay and delay and then eventually decide when to grace you with an actual release, if ever.

What a joke.

 

[Super FLUF]

Deleted - double post

 

[Bob Owens]

Even if AA had 800 applicants systemwide, that's a far cry from what Bob has been saying for the past two years (i.e. that there are no applicants out there).

With 9.2% nationwide unemployment, I seriously doubt that it would be difficult for AAR or ST to find applicants willing to leave high cost of living places where they're barely making ends meet and stuck with a house that is upside down or already in foreclosure proceedings.

"if" they have 800. Like I said these are the same people who said that by 2012 they would have all those "white spaces" in the dock plan and have to shed 1200 heads.

AAR has already been in the news saying that they were having trouble getting people. Careers.com keeps a link on their website for component repair on long island, more than likely that's AAR. What we are seeing now is the majors are picking the AARs, Eagles and other bottom of the barrel companies clean of workers. It's a finite pool. My guess is most people in high cost areas that are in this industry are 20 years or more into their mortgages, they didn't buy when the market was high so they probably aren't upside down. Others, like myself have seen their spouse return to work, often becoming the primary earner and remember over 54% are over 50 so AAR in Indianapolis has zero appeal. There may well be 9.2% unemployed but unemployment doesn't require you to accept employment more than 50 miles away.

 

[Bob Owens]

Com-on people , think about what happen with united in indy. major OH base. ual declares bk . walks away from heavy maint. guess what .. AAR moves into indy facilities. hires some of the laid off ual mechs.AAR works on ual metal. it could happen again at AA. The facilities exist at AFW and Tulsa. no need for MRO's to pick up any AA work..Whatever entity takes over in TULSA and AFW will find TECHS. no prob. people will work for less to have a job. maybe not the hard heads in N.Y. But their a minority.
B.O. is a spindoctor. one day strikes, shutdown O.T. when has that ever worked in recent history..besides you won't get 100% participation...never..
The great AMFA tried to strike nwa... wow ..that worked out well for them. not!!!
B.O. 's facts are suspect. Speculation his forte.
Yeah so AA revenue's been up. whens the last time they reported a profit ???There's a reason AMR is at $3.5 a share. The big money on wall street smells a rat.
so.. put that in your pipe and smoke it !!!!

This ain't 2003. Thousands of mechanics were laid off after the terrorist attacks of Sept 11. Over half the schools that train mechanics have closed since then. The FAA only issued enough new certs for around 3000 A&Ps last year, AA alone lost around 500 through attrition, and that 3000 has to cover the entire Aviation industry, not just commercial transport. Unemployment may be high but the few A&P schools that are open are claiming 100% placement, many never go into Aviation, theme parks, cruise ships, utilities,elevator maintenance and scores of other industries recruit right out of the schools. With a starting wage that's lower today than when they were born there isn't much interest. People who can fix things can always find work.

 

[Bob Owens]

Does this Bob guy have any respect from the rest of the negotiators. If he did would he not be able to convince the negotiators that the TWU already asked to be released. Now they take a vote and don't want to be released, why?
1. the company now will sit with us and negotiate knowing we will not want to be released.
2. we voted no and gave the union the power to take us out on stryke.
3. how can they takes us out on stryke when they ask not to be released.
4. the membership is confused.
5. who is in charge

The international is in control, we are there so they can say "Don't blame us, the people you elected negotiated this".

The minute the TA was accepted to be brought out for a vote we were told by the international " ok, you guys own it".

 

[Birdman]

The international is in control, we are there so they can say "Don't blame us, the people you elected negotiated this".

So your saying if 9 had voted for release and 8 against, the internAAtional would still have nixed it, hypothetically since there have been no official announcements of a vote or the results?

The minute the TA was accepted to be brought out for a vote we were told by the international " ok, you guys own it".

And they wholeheartedly endorsed and highly recommended it's approval? It seems the only thing that sticks to the internAAtional is Teflon.