Pilot and F/A load bags at DCA

[Bear96]

Did you ever ponder why it this were so easy, Unions wouldn't be all over it. yet their not,, Why?

What "it" are you talking about?

Perhaps you are proving my point. As far as I can see, there is nothing for the unions to "be all over," perhaps because airlines don't wrongfully deny WC claims nearly as often as the rumor mill seems to think. In other words, as I have been saying, there is no problem here because claims aren't being denied, or when they are, it's easily resolved by an appeal to the state WC board.

But how as a $9.59/Hr ramper determine which one of the Ambulance chasers and WC frauds that in Yellow pages won't leave him/her high and dry while he is hurt AND being disciplined?

I still don't understand the point you are making here. Are you saying there is absolultely no way for someone who only makes $9.59 to find a competent attorney? I am missing your point. What do they do when faced with a divorce? "Oh well, I only make $9.59 an hour; according to PineyBob, there's no way I'll ever find a good matrimonial attorney. I guess I'll just have to sign whatever papers my ex-spouse's attorney shoves in my face."

And you are still missing the point that a simple wrongfully-denied WC claim should be easily handled by any licensed attorney, espeically one who specialized in WC cases. They're really not hard to find. You can even appeal a WC denial yourself through the applicable state appeal procedures. This isn't a complicated legal issue involving complex litigation and transactions. All you have to do is show your injury arose out of your employment. "I went to work, lifted a bag, and got hurt." End of story.

 

[kao]

At WN it is not unusual to help out fellow employees when needed. I have seen pilots and flight attendants help on the ramp with bags, at the gate with wheelchairs, at the counter when its really busy and customers are asking lots of questions. They don't do this "in place of" the fellow employee, but "with" the fellow employees. It's called Customer Service, internal and external.

you are 100 percent right on this BUT we are not WN and they are not going through the labor issues US is....we need to stick buy each other and honor each others contract until the company takes notice....yep, there are downfalls to "sticking together" with your fellow brother and sister....the customer suffers...I suffer if I am on that plane...but if we do not start doing this----we are doomed....not the company-well maybe--but we all are doomed...

The former America West repeatedly denied workers comp for employee injuries incurred doing the work of other groups, i.e. bagroom agents being injured when clearing jammed up bags in the belt system.

yes they did...I know someone that was paralyzed from lifting a bag....they came back after a long hard road....never got a dime...I have the utmost respect for this person as they tried to buy them out so to speak....

 

[diogenes]

I know firsthand of two WC cases in NC.

In one, the agent tripped over a cable in the airport and broke her arm. The company claimed she was on break and not entitled to WC. Never mind in this station, agents don't clock in and out: the agent fills out a time sheet and a supervisor verifies it at the end of the time period. And no, the lady didn't say she was going on break - she was going from the ticket counter to baggage service, as agents in this station pull double and triple duty. She lawyered up. That was five years ago and there is still no final resolution. I think she was able to keep her claim alive thru the two BK's, but I'm not sure.

Tn the other, an agent was swiping his pass at an outside door to gain access to his work area at the beginning of his shift. Due to freezing rain, there was a sheet of ice at the door, and the agent slipped and injured himself. The company claimed he wasn't on duty, and denied his claim. They further would not assign him a light duty position during his recovery period, so he burned sick time. This deal was grieved and lost. I know at least two attorneys turned it down, and I think the guy just threw in the towel.

In NC, it's difficult to find an attorney that will represent employees - there are some in RDU and CLT. If you are in FAY, ILM, OAJ,AVL or PGV you are SOL.

OTOH, I've spoken with agents in PA and OH and they don't have these kinds of problems. Waaay back in the day, when I resided (briefly) in OH, I had an OJI, and the OH Industrial Commission walked me thru the paces, and I won without an attorney. The commission rep said lawyers just pissed them off, and recommended to me and the company not to send one - just the folks involved in the deal.

 

[Bear96]

You do understand the employer is not the one ultimately who makes the final call with regard to WC claims. The state WC board does. Going to or from work on airport property, or being on a break when an injury occurs, would clearly be within the scope of WC protection.

Googling Fayetteville or Wilmington (etc.) WC attorneys seems to give plenty of hits. If people choose not to pursue their rights, that is their choice.

As to case # 1:

That was five years ago and there is still no final resolution. I think she was able to keep her claim alive thru the two BK's, but I'm not sure.

Not sure what you mean by "final resolution." Were her medical bills being paid and so she was getting some sort of compensation in the meantime? (I don't know if you necessarily know the answers to these things, but a lot of times an employee can be receiving WC while the employer appeals an adverse decision.)

As to case # 2:

They further would not assign him a light duty position during his recovery period, so he burned sick time. This deal was grieved and lost. I know at least two attorneys turned it down, and I think the guy just threw in the towel.

Are you talking WC or some sort of ADA claim here? Seems like more than one issue is at work.

Again, I would love to see the WC paperwork in these claims. It really seems like rumors gone wild with some inaccuracies or muddling of issues. But if not, I might pull up stakes and become a WC plaintiff's attorney in NC, because the anecdotal cases being described here sound very easy to fight.



EDITED TO ADD:

And lookie here what I found from one of those googled sites (http://www.smithdickey.com/CM/FSDP/PracticeCenter/Personal-Injury/Workers-Compensation.asp?focus=overview):

Types of Injuries Covered by Workers' Compensation
For a work-related injury, you may be eligible for compensation for any of the injuries listed below:

. . . .

Injuries caused during breaks, lunch hours, and work-sponsored activities (such as a company picnic), and at-work injuries caused by company facilities, such as a chair in the company lunchroom.

. . . .

f an employee is injured while returning from company-sponsored education classes, or goes to the restroom, visits the cafeteria, has a coffee break, or steps out of a nonsmoking office to smoke a cigarette, and is injured, workers' compensation boards and courts typically recognize that employers benefit from these "nonbusiness" employee conveniences, and often award compensation.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I know in PA if a person is on his way or from work on company grounds, WC covers the employee. The company and the agent (Insurance WC) will do everything to discredit the fact. But it would be hard for them to explain why you are there in the first place. Unless the person has a habit of just hanging around on their day off there. There are actually people who do that, have no life and just hang around.

But if you are travelling and get in a car accident, some WC cases act as secondary coverages but this is a big fight between the Lawyers and the Agents. I know this as to running a business and the insurances that I carry for the employees. That is the one fee that I hate paying is the Insurance, but its a necessity.

 

[Bear96]

The WC system most times is weighted in favor of the employee, IF he or she has the time to fight through the maze of paperwork thrown at them by the company, insurance company, lawyers for both, etc etc.

The goal is to wear out an already injured individual mentally so they just give up.

See there is textbook law and then the amount of justice a person can afford. OJ got a great deal of justice of 11 million dollars. If the company plays hardball with WC then the employee is gonna play hell seeing nickel one from the claim.

I agree.

That is why there are all of those WC attorneys out there willing to work for contingency fees. A little knowledge about the system can go a long way.

Unfortunately, employees (those "average Janes/Joes" you lionize) have had a habit throughout the years of filing bogus WC claims, which just makes it harder for the people who are legitimately injured at work to get what they are entitled to.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

You really show just how out of touch you are with the average Joe/Jane who works everyday.

The WC system most times is weighted in favor of the employee, IF he or she has the time to fight through the maze of paperwork thrown at them by the company, insurance company, lawyers for both, etc etc.

The goal is to wear out an already injured individual mentally so they just give up.

See there is textbook law and then the amount of justice a person can afford. OJ got a great deal of justice of 11 million dollars. If the company plays hardball with WC then the employee is gonna play hell seeing nickel one from the claim.

That is what ALL insurance claims do. They are going to try to settle for the lowest amount out of pocket money they can. Most companies try to avoid the claim if possible cause that means reporting the claim, 1-to the companies insurance and 2 to the State Labor Department. I am lucky that none of My employees ever used it. They use their Medical any which way they can, but as for WC claims, somebody yet has to file. The Insurance agents come in my office every year before the renewal is due. As well as State and Local officals come in at various times.

As for the WC settlement, it would get settled by the insurance company and the employee.

 

[Filkster]

Interesting post over on flyertalk.com about a DCA-CMH flight (E170) sitting waiting for bags to be loaded with no handlers in site. So one of the pilots and an F/A allegedly get off the plane and start doing it!

Any truth to this story?

Bad move, if they hurt thier backs loading bags workers comp won't pay. Also disability may not pay out. Not a good thing do work you are not trained or equipped to do. Remember this is a JOB, just a damn JOB. Getting pax off the gate on time is not worth getting hurt or worse.

Could they have been placing thier crew bags on the plane?

RF

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Why does everyone here automatically think the ramper(s) is at fault? How do we know they weren't working other flights? Or that the supervisors made an error and neglected to assign a crew to that flight?

Was this an ontime departure? If not, was the estimated time well communicated to the ramp unit?

Some of you on here are ridiculously fast to judge before knowing the whole story. Get over yourselves.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Atta boy, Kev"

If I was the only FSC on that flt,and those A-H's started doing that, I would have jumped OUT of the belly, and sent one of THEM INTO the bin, while I ran the jetveyor.

If that had EVER occured in JFK/BOS or LGA(at AA) the F***ING flt. would have got X-LED, due to a crewmember unfit to fly !!

NH/BB's

 

[Rico]

I have indirect knowledge that US Airways has done exactly the "Nonsense" of which you speak. REPEATEDLY!!! It is easier for an employee to just "Do Nothing" thanks to the enlightened management.

Hmmm, if memory serves it goes something like this:

Chances are that they did not unload bags, rather they unloaded children's strollers, as it is the one item that people "gate check" (leave at the jetway door at departure point), and expect/need to get back upon arrival.

Since places like PHL are full of book quoting slackers, who care less about the unique situation and needs of parents flying with little children, than they do about staffing issues... You need to get around them using the same book. Here's how...

I suggest the following:
1. It is important that in the E-170 (and other aircraft) that a proper walk-around inspection is completed before/after each flight.

2. Said inspection should include a close inspection of the Fire/Smoke detection unit located inside the baggage conpartment.

3. If detection unit cannnot be properly inspected inside the baggage bin due to say... a stroller blocking your view (in any fashion), it is adviseable to move that stroller so you can perform a proper inspection.

4. It is unsafe to leave that stroller on the tarmac, and much like any FOD, it is your duty to remove said stroller form the tarmac, and place it in a safer location.

5. Since it is a security screened and tagged item, the safest spot you can place this stroller is at the top of the jetway, and inside the door, thus preventing injury or aircraft damage on both the tarmac, or the jetway stairs.

6. Remember, safety is our number one priority.


There ya go, problem solved. In my experience, you can win any arguement at a workplace like US Airways, if you have at least two out of these three things on your side... (if you have all three, you ae bulletproof):

A. What Does your "Book" (Company manual) say...?
- In this case, nothing says you "cannot" move a stroller, but it does say you have to properly preflight + should never leave FOD on the ramp

B. Safety...
- in this case, insuring proper operation of the onboard fire detection system + the obvious need to avoid having loose items (with wheels) on the ramp trumps any so called concern over opening the baggage bin (pilots trained to do), and unloading a stroller (which flight crew are trained and expected to do with their own luggage in the very same bin BTW)

C Customer Care/Perception...
- This is pretty obvious in this case, you can even leave it unsaid...


So there ya go, you get to help our passengers, and properly explain the situation to a guy like 700UW. Remember, you are not doing someone else's job, you are "doing YOUR job by making sure the aircraft is safe".

It's all in the way you say it.

Afterall, who can argue with doing all you can do, to prevent the aircraft from having a undetected baggage fire, and burning up in-flight (ala Valujet)...? Right 700UW...? B)