This Is How We Roll.......

Hesitate to post at all...but

Fences in bases are going to allow HP and US flight attendants to retain their "status" in their bases. The only way a senior US person will be able to transfer into PHX is if there is a vacancy and then yes, they will be slotted in at their DOH seniority. The same is true of a senior HP stew who decides they want to fly out of Charlotte or Philly.

The original post is just one person trying to vent and doing so in a very poor manner. Neither side had any say-so in this deal. Both airlines have had their service issues. One reason people are "flocking" to AWA might be that they have cut costs so much that they are able to offer the lowest fares in the industry.

I hope the customers will continue to flock to the "new" airline and we will have some degree of job security for years to come. To say one company is the dominant carrier is pointless. We're apparently going to be together, hopefully for the long haul. There is pride evident at both companies. This whole thing has even stirred up feelings of nostalgia within me and, being furloughed for over 2 years, I didn't think I had any great love for US Airways. I look forward to a new management and a new way of working positively. (if I ever get recalled)

This idea that US stews are demanding things be done "thier way" is not evident in my conversations with friends still flying the line. They are just as anxious as to how it is all going to play out but mostly just glad that there seems to be a brighter future for the company. It sucks if a few morons from the US side have made comments that are upsetting, but what is this letter from Matthew supposed to do to people?

To say that US is a piss-poor airline and that the employees were as responsible as management for dragging us down is not only ignorant, but rude. A flight is only as good as it's crew. Some are great, some suck. I know there are going to be dickheads on both sides when this thing gets done. Some people are just wired to not let things go. I hope the majority of employees at both carriers, both inflight and other departments, can rise above this infantile posturing and work together like professionals.

...and I think it's true...there are relatively few geeks like myself from either company that ever bother to visit these boards...most people have a life and better things to do. :blink:

whew!

Good Luck everyone.
 
goodgirl37 said:
DOH is what you want to talk about then lets chat. I just have one thing to ask though, what makes you such aterrific flight attendant that you should gain years of seniority and I should lose seniority? A truthful answer is appreciated - just wondering what makes you such an important factor over me and why you should be rewarded with years of seniority tacked on... Hopefully you can shed some light on your way of thinking for me... because so far most people aren't in line with you even at HP... you want slotting no need for fences - be careful what you wish for...
[post="297195"][/post]​
The better question is why should someone who is furloughed displace a working HP F/A? Why should someone bidding the bottom of their airline's list suddenly be catapulted to the middle of a merged list? Longevity should get you your benefits and seniority should get you your bid position and job security. That's what slotting does.

If the BK judge wanted to he could throw out the DOH provision in the AFA contract if it would provide material benefit to the shareholders.

I urge both sides to do the right thing and find a fair compromise and move on.
 
jetstewus said:
Fences in bases are going to allow HP and US flight attendants to retain their "status" in their bases. The only way a senior US person will be able to transfer into PHX is if there is a vacancy and then yes, they will be slotted in at their DOH seniority. The same is true of a senior HP stew who decides they want to fly out of Charlotte or Philly.


[post="297737"][/post]​

Good fences make good neighbors.
 
luvn737s said:
If the BK judge wanted to he could throw out the DOH provision in the AFA contract if it would provide material benefit to the shareholders.
[post="297755"][/post]​
No he cant, there would have to be a trial and US would have to file for a contract abrogation, they cant just pick and choose what they want in a labor contract.

Read up on section 1113 of the bankruptcy code.
 
EricLv2Fish said:
Travelpro72, I'm not advocating any particular type of integration. Senority is a relative position/status within your company correct? After the merger, if you were to maintain the same relative position/status in the new company would that be fair? Keep in mind everyone would maintain their relative position/status. If you increased your relative position/status because of the merger would you consider that fair? Keep in mind, for you to increase your relative position/status within the company someone has to lose relative position/status. If you answered yes to the first question and no to the second question than DOH would not yield a fair result. If you answered no to the first question and yes to the second question than DOH will yeild a fair result. Guess it's all a matter of perspective. :blink:
[post="297712"][/post]​


Eric, no matter how you put it tacking years of seniority onto someones hire date is ludicrous to say the least. If someone has 23 years in phoenix then they are still going to be senior mama at that base b/c no one can bump them.... correct.... so why are they fighting that's not fair........ boooohoooo!!!! Give me a break.. They see it as a chance to possibly get some years tacked on roughly 10-15 and that my friend isn't fair especially if they want fences and no one would be able to bump them.... If we all don't get along and play by the rules the company will fail... I suggest they get off the high horse b/c things will stay the same for awhile in PHL PHX CLT PIT everywhere.. No one will get bumped - so the knowledgeable people wouldn't be worried about DOH since they know they can't be bumped down to a reserve or anything - THIS is a systemwide seniority not a PHX seniority people... DO ME A FAVOR PHOENIX AND BUILD A BRIDGE WITH THOSE HANDS AND GET OVER IT!! CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG FOR THE FUTURE OF THE COMPANY?
 
PITbull said:
SKY,

Very easy...one f/a has 23 years of service and the other has 40 years of service.
The 40 year f/a should not have to regress 10 years or 15 years to give you added years that you haven't earned.
Does that make sense? If it doesn't, than you will be stressed out.
[post="297673"][/post]​


Sky high states: EXACTLY, PIT. We're in agreement.
 
Light Years said:
There's just not a single good argument for GIVING some people seniority and taking away anothers. Please explain how that's fair? It just doesn't make sense. You have to earn things in life.
[post="297150"][/post]​

Seniority is accrued, not earned.
 
Travelpro72 said:
I'll tell you what is fair about DOH.... It has been in place and was in place before the merger. It is no surprise to anyone. Again, would this be an issue if HP were merging with a more junior group of AFA represented flight attendants? We on both sides have worked hard and earned the time we have but that being said why should I of 8 years drop down in seniority so someone with less time gets more. How does that possibly sound fair either?
[post="297708"][/post]​

This is a question for both sides. Say this merger goes through and they use the bylaws to process the seniortity list and they use date of hire. Do you want to change the bylaws for future mergers to a slotting system? We may not be be able to change them for this merger but I see no reason why we could not go to the union and say we want this changed for the future. I would like to see date of hire but if the majority wanted to change it for the future I would go along with it. I think this should at least be discussed at the national level so all airlines know that If they are a legacy AFA carrier or a smaller Low cost AFA carrier they could end up with date of hire. A shake up of this industry is comming and I think we should be very careful what we do because I don't think this will be the last merger for Usairways.
 
luvn737s said:
The better question is why should someone who is furloughed displace a working HP F/A? Why should someone bidding the bottom of their airline's list suddenly be catapulted to the middle of a merged list? Longevity should get you your benefits and seniority should get you your bid position and job security. That's what slotting does.

If the BK judge wanted to he could throw out the DOH provision in the AFA contract if it would provide material benefit to the shareholders.

I urge both sides to do the right thing and find a fair compromise and move on.
[post="297755"][/post]​


What????? You really need to get informed before you post. A FURLOUGHED F/A CANNOT AND WILL NOT DISPLACE A WORKING HP F/A!!! Seriously, before people keep spouting off "jumpseat" rumors get educated.
The BK judge cannot change bylaws of AFA. The AFA is not in BK....US Airways is.

Is it October yet??? (BOD meeting)
 
a320av8r said:
Suppose the "New" US Airways were to buy Frontier.
Would you want slotting then?
[post="297885"][/post]​
Would be different if the new US BOUGHT Frontier....key word--bought
 
kao said:
Would be different if the new US BOUGHT Frontier....key word--bought
[post="297924"][/post]​

US Airways has ALWAYS used date of hire for EVERY airline they have acquired, AFA or not and before it was even in the bylaws. So, to answer that question.....US Airways would most likely use DOH which IS only fair.
 
Twicebaked said:
What????? You really need to get informed before you post. A FURLOUGHED F/A CANNOT AND WILL NOT DISPLACE A WORKING HP F/A!!! Seriously, before people keep spouting off "jumpseat" rumors get educated.
The BK judge cannot change bylaws of AFA. The AFA is not in BK....US Airways is.

Is it October yet??? (BOD meeting)
[post="297890"][/post]​
So when a vacancy for 20 F/A's opens up in PHX and 20 furloughees come in, only to find 6 months later that there is a reduction bid with invol furloughs, who do you suppose will be packing their bags, hmmm? That person who was 20% up the seniority list or that recalled furloughee?

BK judges have wide latitude and if US thought that the labor strife caused by integration issues was going to jeopardize the merger, then I'm sure US could get whatever it asked for. This wouldn't affect other AFA airlines, only US.

If the a few US AFA F/A's push this hard enough to jeopardize the merger and the only hope many F/A have of remaining employed, they run the real risk of a decertification vote from those unwilling to be dragged down.

You folks remind me of Titanic victims who want the blue lifeboat or none at all.
 
The judge cannot interfer in internal union matters.

The only thing the company can do is try to abrogate a whole contract, which they do not have grounds for as they all ready have affirmed the labor contract with the AFA.

The judge does not have wide lattitude when it comes to collective bargaining agreements with companies in bankruptcy.

The judge has to follow section 1113 C which has specific requirements, see we have all ready been through and know all about contract abrogation as I was involved with the IAM M&R negotiations.