Twu - Local 514 Lies Again!

[RV4]

CIO,

If you are so blinded by the head lights of the bus union that you cannot even see your own lies, we cannot help you. Open your mind.

You call your lies an "error", you must be a pathological errorist?

RV4 AKA SCO

Dave when you accuse someone of lying then the accuser, that's you, has to present the evidence that he alledges is false. So do it!

j7915 aka BDU

Do you or your BDU pals ever post documents or proof of anything? NO. Why dont you hold your own union to the accountability standards which you aspire on the internet bulletin boards?

Simply look at the first posting on this thread.

THERE IS YOUR LIE!

Put on some sunglasses, those bus headlights are blinding you.

 

[Checking it Out]

Just the Facts

AMFA Skills-The new-fangled t-shirt design boast the Airlines which AMFA represent, The following is documented facts on how they are representing their membership.

Northwest- Amfa won Representation rights at NWA in June of 2000. AMFA negotiated language allowing 38% outsourcing of Labor Hours. Resulting in 50% of NW Mechanics and Related Classifications being Laid off and The Mechanic and Related employees must have a 1990 seniority date to have a job according to the current Seniority List. AMFA at NWA Leads the Industry with the highest Percentage of Mechanics and Related on Layoff and Holds the record of the highest percentage of work being performed overseas.

United- As United asked for concessions from the IAM represented mechanics, AMFA ran an organizing campaign on the property. Mechanics at United were asked to take a 7% pay cut and allowed more Outsourcing. The AMFA Organizers pleaded with mechanics not to accept the offer. As the offer was turned down by the membership, United entered into bankruptcy and started Sec 11 13c proceedings. Because the law is very clear that the union and the company must attempt to negotiate an agreement and absent an agreement the company can ask the judge to do away with the contract in its entirety. The IAM membership voted at the final hour to accept an overall 13% cut in wages, including license premium and allow outsourcing of two United bases losing 6000 members jobs. It was only then that AMFA won representation of the disgruntled IAM membership. It was AMFA, thanks to their intervention that has allowed United to eventually outsource all of the Heavy Maintenance. “6000 plus Members Jobs and countingâ€￾

Alaska- The AMFA won Representation of Alaska in 1999. Since that time Alaska has performed more Maintenance with outside contractors than any other carrier, topping the chart at 70 Percent. AMFA also Introduced Interest based Arbitration to the Alaska contract. During the last Contract discussions AMFA and Alaska went to binding Arbitration which Alaska won Hands down and now the Mechanics have dropped to #7 in Pay. Highest % of Farm-outs in the Industry.

Southwest- The IBT won the highest pay in the Industry for the Southwest Mechanics. AMFA took over Representation of the Members in 2003. During the following months, Cookouts were conducted for funds to hold Arbitrations and AMFA at SWA holds the honor of having the least amount of Participation amongst the members in the Industry.

Atlantic Coast Airlines- ACA Members have endured the last 14 months without a Contract.

Mesaba- AMFA exchanged contract openers May 20, 2003, Their Contract became amendable August 16, Currently AMFA meets about 3 days a month with little knowledge being passed out about the Contract discussions. Will this go on for another 12 months?

Horizon- AMFA Members are currently without a contract going on 8 months.

ATA- AMFA members have been without a contract for over a year.

AMFA Constitution Quote; “During the times of Negotiations commencing at the acceptance of proposals, or after and ending at the date of signing, any Local may choose to Institute an assessment up to 0.5 (50%) the base hourly rate per month of the affected members in Negotiations.â€￾ Several AMFA Locals currently have special assessments!


Stay Informed! Get the Facts!

Concerned Aviation Technicians

 

[Hopeful]

CIO:

I have not read any post from you referring to the fact that PRIOR to AMFA getting in at United, 6000 MECHANICS WERE ALREADY LAID OFF!

Can you please post your opinion on this?

Thank you!

 

[Checking it Out]

From Hopeful;

CIO:I have not read any post from you referring to the fact that PRIOR to AMFA getting in at United, 6000 MECHANICS WERE ALREADY LAID OFF!Can you please post your opinion on this?
-------------------------------------------

Hopeful; as you are aware AMFA Organizers since 1994 have continued to hammer the IAM at United, they made at least 4 attempts since this date. Because of their continued disruption the AMT’s repeatedly took it in the shorts. Starting with ESOP, bankruptcy and several other factors. Part of the problem was the instability of the work force. If you have division amongst the rank and file the company will take full advantage of the situation. It is a fact United Management miss-managed their affairs, but they did understand the weakness the AMT’s also had. AMFA took advantage of this and instilled a distrust, fear and Lie campaign and repeatedly used this. It is unfortunate the Members had to endure this kind of treatment for the last 9 years. I for one would not want to be in their shoes. IAM at United had one of the Best Scope Clauses in the Industry and would still be in effect if it weren’t for AMFA’s Interference. They told the AMT’s we will promise you the world if you just come with us! The AMT’s had nothing to lose. Thanks to the distrust that was instilled in them repeatedly day in and day out by the AMFA Organizers. If half of what is going on at AA is any indication god help us all.

AMFA at NWA inserted language in their contract along with Alaska that gives the company’s unlimited outsourcing rights and United wanted the same thing. The IAM was able to keep this intact up until the last contract, but when the AMFA Organizers feed the AMT’s a bunch of lies and the contract was rejected! United had the tools they needed to change the wording to give them the same Unlimited Outsourcing rights as AMFA gave to many other Airlines. It also did not help when United announced 2000 more layoffs just as the vote was taking place. This gave AMFA and United the help they needed to win the election. United has made it clear it is in their best Interest to have AMFA as the AMT’s Representative, All you have to do is look at the Contracts Negotiated by AMFA and you will understand why. Amfa has made it clear they are willing to sacrifice the majority to achieve their objectives.

What percentage of the AMFA Members are currently on Layoff? I believe it to be the highest in the Industry and Climbing. At what time will you realize this? Just above or below your date of hire? Read the contract AMFA has with The McCormick Group and Attorney Seham you will understand who the winners are in this set-up.

View highlights of the McCormick Contract Here: Concerned Aviation Technicians

 

[James T. Kirk]

Dave here are some facts for the NWA 2001 PEB. This is is on page 26 of the POST-HEARING BRIEF which was made on March 27,2001. Lee Seham statment (amfa shoule be credited with having brought $300 million in work rule CONCESSIONS TO THE TABLE TO FUNANCE ITS ECONOMIC DEMANDS IN THE PROSPEDTIVE AGREEMENT. also on that same page Lee states (BY CONTRAST, THE NEW CONTRACTUAL SUBCONTRACTING LIMITATIONS- CITED BY NORTHWEST AS ITS PRINCIPAL WORK RULE CONCESSION-PERMIT SUBCONTRACTING AT A LEVEL COMFORTABLY ABOVE CURRENT RATES).

been proven at Delta Airlines: the airline that most highly compensates its aviation technicians has the lowest unit cost. (AMP A Ex. 26; Bavis Presentation Slide 16).
C. AMF A'S WORK RULE CONCESSIONS
During its presentation, Northwest suggested it was entitled to some ill-deEmed credit for the work rule concessions it had made. In fact, the opposite is true. (Tr. 691).
As Negotiator Victor Remeneski testified, more time was spent discussing Northwest's "churn" demands than on any other work rule issue. (Tr.235). The increased seniority bidding rights obtained in 1993 were the principal compensation received by the Mechanics and Related Employees in exchange for their $300 million in concessions. (Tr.234). In view of Northwest's virtual obsession with nullifying these seniority rights (including assertions that the airline could not remain competitive given the present level of system churn), AMP A should be credited with having brought $300 million in work rule concessions to the table to fmance its economic demands in the prospective agreement. (Tr.234-35). As Mr. Wildermuth testified, many members have expressed their bitter opposition to what constitutes a dramatic reduction of their seniority rights. (Tr. 699, 701, 703).
By contrast, the new contractual subcontracting limitations - cited by Northwest
as its principal work rule concession - permit subcontracting at a level comfortably above current rates. (Tr. 692-93, AMPA Ex. 53). Thus, in exchange for the illusory costs of these subcontracting limitations, Northwest has obtained the real bird-in-the-hand cost savings it proclaimed necessary to remain competitive.

 

[jake]

I’m just wondering if anyone is going to refute the “facts” as James T. Kirk and CIO have presented them regarding the United guys? Let me say, the proof is in the pudding here. AMFA’s influence and continuous lies and turmoil tactics finally paid off for them. After four different cards drives, the turmoil finally caught up with the IAM. You’d think that AMFA would save their “chaos” tactics for the company, but AMFA finally caught the IAM in a difficult situation with regard to United’s financial state. They helped spread lies and false hope, promised things they couldn’t deliver and helped, along with United management, divide and conquer the membership. This division caused the pre-bankruptcy agreement to be rejected. The IAM had negotiated an agreement that would’ve kept their scope clause intact, saving thousands of jobs and required a smaller (7%) pay cut instead of the larger one (13% from the 2002 rates and cancellation of scheduled raises). Instead, the AMFA influence wreaked havoc on the membership causing United to enter into 1113c bankruptcy. This was the worst thing that could’ve happened because not only were thousands laid off, but also the scope of their work was lost. The agreement from the 1113c proceedings allows United to outsource ALL of their heavy maintenance and 20% annually of ALL other maintenance. Needless to say, this makes it easier on AMFA because they don’t have to worry about the differences between line and base maintenance and they can blame the lay-offs on the previous Union. Unfortunately for AMFA, they are beginning to accumulate a track record. All of the Airlines that they represent farm out most all of their heavy maintenance and/or have the highest lay off numbers in the industry. You AMFA supporters should be aware that AMFA, will in fact, sign your job away and then blame someone else. Ask the 10,000 or so mechanics that have lost their jobs due to AMFA’s influence and sub par language. They say “NO CONCESSIONS” but only when another Union is on the property. Just look at NWA, now their position is, “NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONS”. When AMFA is under the gun, they simply can’t deliver what they promise. So let’s get real, who’s really telling the lies??

 

[RV4]

Dave here are some facts for the NWA 2001 PEB. This is is on page 26 of the POST-HEARING BRIEF which was made on March 27,2001. Lee Seham statment (amfa shoule be credited with having brought $300 million in work rule CONCESSIONS TO THE TABLE TO FUNANCE ITS ECONOMIC DEMANDS IN THE PROSPEDTIVE AGREEMENT. also on that same page Lee states (BY CONTRAST, THE NEW CONTRACTUAL SUBCONTRACTING LIMITATIONS- CITED BY NORTHWEST AS ITS PRINCIPAL WORK RULE CONCESSION-PERMIT SUBCONTRACTING AT A LEVEL COMFORTABLY ABOVE CURRENT RATES).

So the question is,

How did AMFA give $300 Million in "work rule" concessions and still raises the pay to $35 per hour, they kept their vacation, their holidays, their sick time, and doubled their retirement.

In contrast, TWU gave $300 Million and look at where that left us. Massive and visible loss of pay and benefits.

Who's $300 Million Concession would you rather have?


Something just really doesn't add up here now does it?

BTW, according to Lee Seham, the brief you have referenced was requesting credit for $300 Million worth of IAM Concessions at NWA already brought forward, just as AMFA will request credit for the TWU $300 Million in concessions during the first negotiations at AA.

How many times does this ame question have to be answered?

 

[j7915]

Dave here are some facts for the NWA 2001 PEB. This is is on page 26 of the POST-HEARING BRIEF which was made on March 27,2001. Lee Seham statment (amfa shoule be credited with having brought $300 million in work rule CONCESSIONS TO THE TABLE TO FUNANCE ITS ECONOMIC DEMANDS IN THE PROSPEDTIVE AGREEMENT. also on that same page Lee states (BY CONTRAST, THE NEW CONTRACTUAL SUBCONTRACTING LIMITATIONS- CITED BY NORTHWEST AS ITS PRINCIPAL WORK RULE CONCESSION-PERMIT SUBCONTRACTING AT A LEVEL COMFORTABLY ABOVE CURRENT RATES).

So the question is,

How did AMFA give $300 Million in "work rule" concessions and still raises the pay to $35 per hour, they kept their vacation, their holidays, their sick time, and doubled their retirement.

In contrast, TWU gave $300 Million and look at where that left us. Massive and visible loss of pay and benefits.

Who's $300 Million Concession would you rather have?


Something just really doesn't add up here now does it?

BTW, according to Lee Seham, the brief you have referenced was requesting credit for $300 Million worth of IAM Concessions at NWA already brought forward, just as AMFA will request credit for the TWU $300 Million in concessions during the first negotiations at AA.

How many times does this ame question have to be answered?

Dave look at the bright side. AMFA can be a real hero outfit if they can convince the company to do a snap back in pay and benefits and recoup the extra cost by laying off however many it takes. Besides if the rampers are no longer tied to the mechs coattails then AA can finally pay the mechs what they "deserve".

The other neat thing is that you have either fewer voters to BS , or you don't have to try to locate lots of laid off employees and get them to sign a, what is the new color, green?

What is McCormick going to do if he starts to represent the F/A, and has to negotiate for them? Is he going to tell them their money went to the mechs because they are so much more valuable?

 

[RV4]

Dave here are some facts for the NWA 2001 PEB. This is is on page 26 of the POST-HEARING BRIEF which was made on March 27,2001. Lee Seham statment (amfa shoule be credited with having brought $300 million in work rule CONCESSIONS TO THE TABLE TO FUNANCE ITS ECONOMIC DEMANDS IN THE PROSPEDTIVE AGREEMENT. also on that same page Lee states (BY CONTRAST, THE NEW CONTRACTUAL SUBCONTRACTING LIMITATIONS- CITED BY NORTHWEST AS ITS PRINCIPAL WORK RULE CONCESSION-PERMIT SUBCONTRACTING AT A LEVEL COMFORTABLY ABOVE CURRENT RATES).

James T. Kirk,


DID YOU READ ALL OF PAGE 26? DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE PART ABOUT 1993 IAM CONCESSIONS AND SENIORITY BIDDING RIGHTS?

You make it sound like gave $300 Million in concessions. You've got that wrong pal, it was the TWU that did that "without further ratification".

Try reading the transcript once again and tell what it really means?

 

[RV4]

I’m just wondering if anyone is going to refute the “factsâ€￾ as James T. Kirk and CIO have presented them regarding the United guys? Let me say, the proof is in the pudding here. AMFA’s influence and continuous lies and turmoil tactics finally paid off for them. After four different cards drives, the turmoil finally caught up with the IAM.

SO now you resort to blaming AMFA for suffering which occurred while the IAM was on the property?

That dosn't say much for the IAM does it?

Maybe if those stupid IAM/UAL guys would have signed cards earlier or voted for AMFA in 1994, they wouldn't be in the shape they are today.

Same true for AA, if AMFA had obtained enough cards and won an election prior to the "without further ratification" saga, I bet I would still have my vacation, sick time, paid holidays.

BTW, did hear the latest? It was AMFA's fault that the TWU Shop Steward on Dock 3D exposed himself to management and he still kept his job. It also AMFA's fault that the Power Grid in the Northeast recently failed causing blackouts for millions of people.

You guys are really grasping now, and showing fear to boot.

 

[FWAAA]

Same true for AA, if AMFA had obtained enough cards and won an election prior to the "without further ratification" saga, I bet I would still have my vacation, sick time, paid holidays.

That's a good one!

 

[Steve Connell]

Ref: Maybe if those stupid IAM/UAL guys would have signed cards earlier or voted for AMFA in 1994, they wouldn't be in the shape they are today.


I'm sure calling mechanics and related STUPID is going to get more cards signed. Remind me not to hire ya as a promotion manager...in other words...anyone who has an opinion other than your own has got to be stupid? Please verify .... and thx for the assistance in keeping AMFA out of MCI.

 

[RV4]

Ref: Maybe if those stupid IAM/UAL guys would have signed cards earlier or voted for AMFA in 1994, they wouldn't be in the shape they are today.


I'm sure calling mechanics and related STUPID is going to get more cards signed. Remind me not to hire ya as a promotion manager...in other words...anyone who has an opinion other than your own has got to be stupid? Please verify .... and thx for the assistance in keeping AMFA out of MCI.

The TRUTH normally hurts when spoken, especially when spoken publicly.

No offense should be taken, up until 1995, I too was a stupid TWU/AA guy and would refuse to hear and/or see the truth. For this I am not ashamed, for I am better organizer today because of this.

Now days, that has changed, and for you, one day that will change also.

I am not going to walk around telling people what they WANT to hear to get them to agree with me, that is the exact nature and error of industrial unionism.

GET TO TRUTH, GOOD OR BAD, then weigh the differences. A one-sided campaign by a "promotion manager" is not going to advance your profession. Slogans, t-shirts, windshield sun-shades, bumper stickers, and signs have gotten us nowhere.

 

[twuer]

Ref: Maybe if those stupid IAM/UAL guys would have signed cards earlier or voted for AMFA in 1994, they wouldn't be in the shape they are today.


I'm sure calling mechanics and related STUPID is going to get more cards signed. Remind me not to hire ya as a promotion manager...in other words...anyone who has an opinion other than your own has got to be stupid? Please verify .... and thx for the assistance in keeping AMFA out of MCI.

The TRUTH normally hurts when spoken, especially when spoken publicly.

No offense should be taken, up until 1995, I too was a stupid TWU/AA guy and would refuse to hear and/or see the truth. For this I am not ashamed, for I am better organizer today because of this.

Now days, that has changed, and for you, one day that will change also.

I am not going to walk around telling people what they WANT to hear to get them to agree with me, that is the exact nature and error of industrial unionism.

GET TO TRUTH, GOOD OR BAD, then weigh the differences. A one-sided campaign by a "promotion manager" is not going to advance your profession. Slogans, t-shirts, windshield sun-shades, bumper stickers, and signs have gotten us nowhere.

RV4 Quote. . .
Slogans, t-shirts, windshield sun-shades, bumper stickers, and signs have gotten us nowhere.

Then why don't you stop wearing those ugly AMFA t-shirts!!

Another RV4 Quote. . .
Maybe if those stupid IAM/UAL guys would have signed cards earlier or voted for AMFA in 1994, they wouldn't be in the shape they are today.

Just brilliant Dave!! Resort to name calling when things get too tough for you. :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I'm sure calling mechanics and related STUPID is going to get more cards signed. Remind me not to hire ya as a promotion manager...in other words...anyone who has an opinion other than your own has got to be stupid? Please verify .... and thx for the assistance in keeping AMFA out of MCI.

To SC and others, the point calling people STUPID is strong. To say the least. However, the point is valid, OK, let's not use the word STUPID. How about misinformed? Or afraid of change? I prefer ignorant. The fact remains that OUR profession faces many hurdles now. Most of which were placed in front of us by the industrial unions we pay to remove them. In the past AMFA was not very large. But they did talk the talk and walked the walk. Just ask any AMFA AMT represented back in the 70/80s. But as a whole people were led to believe that the LARGER industrial unions were better equiped both politically/financially. Since then we have seen first hand how inept these industrial unions are at doing what they say. People were IGNORANT back then for not seeing the hand writing on the wall. Most though have woken up from the inept twu/iam/ibt induced coma. For those who remain IGNORANT they will be brought kicking and dragging along with us into a better future. They will eventually wake up and we will be waiting for them. SC, I do not think you are doing the best for our profession by remaining a twu supporter. They have NOTHING to give our profession... except more concessions. To all the Tulsa/MCI/STL AMFA organizers keep up the good work.