U.S Pilot Labor Thread, 8/10 - 8/17

[GorgeousGeorge]

You just don't get. I had seniority at AWA and the Easties had seniority at USAirways. Seniority isn't transferable. The fact that an East pilot has been at US for a gillion years doesn't entitle him to be above me.

Lemme put is this way: in 2005 when the merger closed the bottom active East pilot was a 1986 hire, correct? So was he 'junior' or 'senior'? Obviously, being at the bottom of the list made him very junior indeed. Right? RIGHT??!!!! His DOH still only yielded him the bottom position. Yet a DOH integration with AWA would make him in the top 15% at AWA. In other words, the AAA MEC and now USAPA wants very junior pilots pre-merger to become very senior pilots post-merger. Seniority is relative and not an absolute. Gee, I wonder why Nicolau didn't buy the East's argument!!!

Your argument is based on individualistic desire and what you think you deserve and attaching relevance to a condition you had no control over. Your position circa 2005 has nothing to do with trade unionism or the entitlements it is founded on. Yes the 1986 hire should advance ahead of you for the rest of his career. Senior and junior are terms people assign to an individual and just that. You are using a snapshot argument which has no relevance to entitlement. If you want to get what you think you deserve, get out of the union world and go earn it or live with the structure the profession has adopted and quit mucking it up. You don't get to be Captain because you deserve it, but because you are entitled to it. I am sure US Airways and every other airline would love a meritocracy program for advancement.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The transition agreement did not mention Nicolau's name.

Good old Nos - count on you to come up with something completely off the wall. Exactly what does the TA section on resolving union/company disagreements over the TA terms have to do with seniority integration of the two pilot groups?

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Good old Nos - count on you to come up with something completely off the wall. Exactly what does the TA section on resolving union/company disagreements over the TA terms have to do with seniority integration of the two pilot groups?

Jim

Gee! Over 8,000 posts! If I only had time to research them all.. Maybe when I retire.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Your argument is based on individualistic desire and what you think you deserve and attaching relevance to a condition you had no control over.

So is yours.

break

In case you didn't notice NWA and DAL just agreed today to settle their integration through binding arbitration. This happened despite full knowledge of the risks therein. If both airlines had felt straight DOH was fair they would've simply agreed to that instead. Funny how they didn't simply do what the AAA MEC and USAPA want to do.

If one side doesn't like the award I wonder if they'll decertify ALPA as well?

I'm going to predict right here and now that they'll end up with something close to relative seniority with a short-term fence on NWA's whales. Any counter predictions?

 

[Leonidas]

So DOH at our original airline is the only way to go heh? why will usapa not reorder the east list to strict DOH?

 

[nostradamus]

Good old Nos - count on you to come up with something completely off the wall. Exactly what does the TA section on resolving union/company disagreements over the TA terms have to do with seniority integration of the two pilot groups?

Jim

My quote Jim,


"The transition agreement did not mention Nicolau's name. alpa, the runaway train, wanted him badly for the seniority issue, hmmmm."

The difference is Jim, they did not want nicolau for the transition agreement, he was not even listed. They did see fit to have him around for the seniority. paul rice alpa first vp (rice bio click here)

was a so called neutral party that happend to be a united pilot, yea right. He knew darn well that there was a strong possibility of a ual aaa tie up so alpa conveniently chose nicolau, whom they fed garbage stats, who was on their payroll many times to try to pull a fast one, history will prove this.

Just look at his picture jim. Would you trust a man with a mustache like his?

 

[nostradamus]

So is yours.

break

In case you didn't notice NWA and DAL just agreed today to settle their integration through binding arbitration. This happened despite full knowledge of the risks therein. If both airlines had felt straight DOH was fair they would've simply agreed to that instead. Funny how they didn't simply do what the AAA MEC and USAPA want to do.

If one side doesn't like the award I wonder if they'll decertify ALPA as well?

I'm going to predict right here and now that they'll end up with something close to relative seniority with a short-term fence on NWA's whales. Any counter predictions?

The NWA DAL will have a panel of three arbitrators.

As far as the outcome, due to fuel, whales are now dinosaurs. Look for 10 year fences around bases.

 

[prechilill]

Funny how they didn't simply do what the AAA MEC and USAPA want to do.

Reality is hard for some to endure around here. Understanding and accepting reality is a complete unknown, so I doubt the USAPs will understand the true root of their problems in light of the NWA-DAL integration process. Truth is, there have been quite a few hardships on the east side in this profession and we are seeing it with their passion for a twisted vision which only exists in fiction. DOH doesn't exist, the sooner they understand that the better they can get on with what is left of their careers. Some of the FO's (most of the posters around here from the east) paid their dues in the military, were hired by USAir and spent more time in the unemployment line than their military flight school classmates spent in the flight decks at airlines like Northwest, Delta, American and United. I believe this is where the sting of Nicolau really comes from because it was probably these FO's last chance of catching a break, or a lucky star in their USAir careers. Well, hardships don't land you any privileges in life and you don't collect the $200 without passing GO! first. That is life. Dreams are only real for kids at Disneyland.

 

[ussnark]

DOH doesn't exist, ...

Where have you been? Nearly every single employee group has integrated with DOH principles, except the pilots.

Your fantasies? You should really keep those to yourself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

My quote Jim.......

Just out of curiosity, do you have any other favorite conspiracy theories or is this the only one......

Jim

 

[tazz]

My quote Jim,




The difference is Jim, they did not want nicolau for the transition agreement, he was not even listed. They did see fit to have him around for the seniority. paul rice alpa first vp (rice bio click here)

was a so called neutral party that happend to be a united pilot, yea right. He knew darn well that there was a strong possibility of a ual aaa tie up so alpa conveniently chose nicolau, whom they fed garbage stats, who was on their payroll many times to try to pull a fast one, history will prove this.

Just look at his picture jim. Would you trust a man with a mustache like his?

I haven't seen a bigger display of ignorance on this board yet! Do you have a clue how the arbitrator is chosen? Did you read any of the transcripts? Try engaging your brain before opening your mouth. And, no, I am not going to explain it to you. The references you need to read are readily available.

P.S. Start practicing...... It's going to be "Cactus". Stay safe, now.

 

[nostradamus]

I haven't seen a bigger display of ignorance on this board yet! Do you have a clue how the arbitrator is chosen? Did you read any of the transcripts? Try engaging your brain before opening your mouth. And, no, I am not going to explain it to you. The references you need to read are readily available.

P.S. Start practicing...... It's going to be "Cactus". Stay safe, now.

"Fact
The AAA and AWA Merger Committees selected George Nicolau as mediator/arbitrator for the seniority integration. Mr. Nicolau was chosen by merger attorneys for both sides alternately striking names from a list of 17 suggestions provided by ALPA. Here is what the US Airways merger representatives told the US Airways pilots in a hotline dated February 2, 2006:"

“We wanted to secure [an arbitrator] to our satisfaction as soon as possible. We are pleased with the selection of George Nicolau.â€￾

All alpa "leaders" on flight pay loss, puppets of prater.

 

[SegmentKing]

I'm seeing a lot of "sore winners" from our friends West of the 'river.

Every East pilot I know really doesn't care about the call sign... some were from Piedmont, Mohawk, Allegheny, and some guys who came from the wholy-owneds... its NOT that big of a deal to them.

*scratching head*

 

[CaptBud330]

I came from Mohawk and I was no problem moving to the Allegheny call sign. When we changed the name to USAir, it was like we had grown up. We were now with the "Big Boys". Now to go backward to a rinky-dink call sign is embarrassing. Glad I don't fly international anymore. I would choke saying Cactus.

 

[EastUS]

Reality is hard for some to endure around here. Understanding and accepting reality is a complete unknown, .....and you don't collect the $200 without passing GO! first. That is life. Dreams are only real for kids at Disneyland.

..You couldn't have summed things up any better in any way... 🙄 😉

PS: I see that the rides must all still be running fine in Fantasyland, which is very reassuring to see.