US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/8-12/15

[aquagreen73s]

More likely, the voice of desperation. You're finding yourselves between a rock and a hardplace due to bad decisions. And the bad decisions and bad consequences just keep on comin'.

It happens when the words of a snake oil salesman are taken as the truth.

 

[Richard]

A quick reminder ladies and gentlemen:

If a member posts a profanity or blatant inflammatory remark aimed at another member or group, DO NOT repeat the phrase, use the report to moderator function. If your response to an offensive post quotes the offense and your post is reported, YOU get the suspension.

Any posts found to be so offensive will be edited or deleted at the discretion of the moderator.

While we realize there are passionate feelings on both sides of the issue, there is no place for name calling, insults, or profanity, and it will not be tolerated.

Thank you.

 

[cleardirect]

Just going over the NWA/DAL arbitration award. Have not gotten through the entire thing yet. Just a couple quick quotes.

8 As in all such exercises, the focus here is necessarily on groups, not on any individual pilot. Inevitably, and unavoidably, there will be perceived disparities and mismatches on individual levels, on both sides, under the merged list.

Could we please get past how many numbers anyone “lostâ€￾ with the Nicolau award. Three arbitrators answered you.


So for all of the east pilots that have repeatedly told us that there career expectations were to be the number one wide body captain at the end of their career. The arbitrators address your argument.

No recitation of career expectations ever includes a merger, and no merger can leave all hopes and plans unaffected.

 

[EastUS]

NiceLandingCaptain..in an earlier fantasized moment you posted "There were times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself..." It was demonstrated that you never even came close to flying in any combat theater of ops....ever.

PS:..and I do apologize; I can't imagine how I was earlier so utterly uncivil as to have overlooked the proper "salute" for such behavior = "INTEGRITY MATTERS". :blink: ...more to some than others it would seem. 🙄

 

[RowUnderDCA]

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/busine..._seniority.html Not happening here!!!!

It seems to me that the DL/NW merged list avoids the biggest (well, definitive) flaw of the Nic decision. By using 'tranches' of pilots from each carrier, the DL/NW list prevents the worsening of the differential the further down the list you go.

With Nic, the decision ensured that the pilots that will be around the longest are MOST motivated to never agree, making East delay irresistible... and seemingly worth it.

Not very strategic.

 

[EastUS]

It happens when the words of a snake oil salesman are taken as the truth.

Speaking of selling snake oil: Aquagreen73s Posted on: Oct 13 2005, 09:38 PM: "I'm amazed by the widespread misconception as to how seniority lists are built. It's longevity...always has been, always will be. Even when the AFA talks "DOH," that's commoner slang for what is really "longevity."

Care to clear your post-Nic epiphany up a bit?

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (The Janitor @ Dec 9 2008, 08:37 AM)
You guys are unbelievable! The easy thing that should have been done is to do what all groups have always done in the airline industry, go by date of hire. Other groups are unionized on this property and even had different unions and still respected this age old system of fairness we call date of hire. It's amazing how one group of spoiled pilots screwed everything up for you guys ..."

I do not follow a single concept in this completely incorrect post.

Sadly..that comes as no surprise. There's clearly far too much to be gained from the Nic insanity to permit any reasonable observations to factor into the obsession.

"What I know is Janitor should go back to mopping floors rather than commenting on spoiled pilots and such."

Ouch!...The truth must have hurt

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (N924PS @ Dec 9 2008, 05:18 PM)
It won't get my vote. I wouldn't wish LOA 93 on a fellow pilot who is enjoying better pay and benefits, just for spite.Luv, I am disappointed in you, who I thought to be a true unionist.

Your right, it was cocktail hour. My bad

I agree gentlemen. Though our "fellow pilots" out west have long ago established "You can live on LOA93 forever!" as a gleeflly taunting "battle cry"..there's simply NO princpled way in which we should EVER sink to that level. If not so much for their "Integrity" infested sakes, for the good of the profession.

 

[electricjet98]

It seems to me that the DL/NW merged list avoids the biggest (well, definitive) flaw of the Nic decision. By using 'tranches' of pilots from each carrier, the DL/NW list prevents the worsening of the differential the further down the list you go.

With Nic, the decision ensured that the pilots that will be around the longest are MOST motivated to never agree, making East delay irresistible... and seemingly worth it.

Not very strategic.

Any "difference" between the two is obvious when you consider that neither NWA or DAL had pilots on furlough. If they had, they surely would have been tacked on to the bottom, below the most junior working pilot of the other airline. They would still have a fair and equitable list...and it would look very similar to ours!

 

[luvthe9]

More likely, the voice of desperation. You're finding yourselves between a rock and a hardplace due to bad decisions. And the bad decisions and bad consequences just keep on comin'.

Not for me, the list does effect my position.

 

[electricjet98]

Not for me, the list does effect my position.

??? Care to elaborate?

 

[nycbusdriver]

From the transcripts:

But Mr. Seham, USAPA's grievance, does it challenge the furloughing of West Pilots in advance of furloughing New-Hire East Pilots? New-Hire Seniority List, to be precise?

.......etc.

Clearly the company is party to the TA that states new hires go first. The company needs to accept the consequences of not complying with that contract. The simple solution is to pay protect an equal number of the most senior west furloughees until the east new hires are on the street. Of course, this would be a small financial burden to the company, but they DID sign the TA and agreed to furough new hires first.

 

[luvthe9]

??? Care to elaborate?

early 80 hire date.

 

[cleardirect]

Any "difference" between the two is obvious when you consider that neither NWA or DAL had pilots on furlough. If they had, they surely would have been tacked on to the bottom, below the most junior working pilot of the other airline. They would still have a fair and equitable list...and it would look very similar to ours!

They actually did treat some of the junior pilot like the furloughs.

Anyone hired after April 14, 2008 went to the bottom of the list. That was all of the delta new hires about 48 of them.

Interesting number off to the right of the seniority list. They listed the original percentage and the merger percentage. Right at mid pack was the largest percentage difference from pre to post seniority. The biggest difference I saw was a 3% change in overall seniority.

If you were 48% on your list you went to 51% on the combined list. They are DC9 F/O's placed next to 767 and 777 delta F/O's

So it appears now that four independent arbitrator have looked at merging seniority and have come to the conclusion that relative integration is the way to do it.

This will make Seham’s job in court just a little bit tougher in February. Not every other work has gone DOH. There goes that argument. DOH is a bedrock union principle. Out the door.

 

[Phoenix]

Annswer the question. Did the East agree to binding arbitration?

It is a simple yes or no.

Did the Confederacy print money? Yes or no.