US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/8-12/15

[jcw]

It's funny how NW and DL were able to merge their seniority lists in such a short order. However, I would suggest that this was a result of watching the US unions fight and they wanted to avoid it.

Level heads should stop and understand the NW/DL integration approach and see if it can work for US.

At the end of the day NW/DL mgmt did not create the merged seniority list the employees did. Remember the union is the employees.

Stop the lawsuits and sit down and hammer it out. The only winner in this continuing argument is our competitors. We have the most to loss and at this point the least to gain by keeping the fighting going. We will end up back in Chapter 11 for many reasons however this pilot issue will haunt us for many years if people can't bury the axe and move on.

It's time to move on.

 

[cactusboy53]

It is interesting all the integrity talk from the west. In order to survive in the early days america west airline pilots crossed picket lines in Australia and your management pilots flew drugs to stay alive for an Australian investor.

Your pilots were flying under the influence and your ceo liked to drive inebriated all his life.

It is everyones moral responsibility to acknowledge this and assure this attempted move into accreditation by society does not take place.

ooh...ooh! Did you see that? It was a piece of straw followed by dead horse being beaten repeatedly! Duck! There it goes again! 😛

 

[exB717Flyer]

It's important to note that the comparative ease of the DAL/NWA integration is due in large part to the relative similarity in their demographics.

Incorrect on both points. The ease was due to having a contract in place prior to the arbitration. The NWA pilots are not happy with the arbitration result because their demographics are very different. The top 2000 Delta guys took early retirement during their bankruptcy so Delta is a pretty young group. The NWA guys felt entitled to DOH, which uncoincidentally benefits them, and they didn't get it. Sound familiar?

 

[exB717Flyer]

Stop the lawsuits and sit down and hammer it out.

It sounds nice to spew out naive statements like this. Unfortunately, you're ignoring how the current dispute began (the Easties withdrawing from joint negotiations). The suits can go away and the two sides can start working together with one, easy, simple step: USAPA ends its assault on the arbitrated seniority list. If you can wait just a few more months this may well be the case.

 

[nostradamus]

ooh...ooh! Did you see that? It was a piece of straw followed by dead horse being beaten repeatedly! Duck! There it goes again! 😛

You have to keep beating the dead horse until all the maggots infesting its meat are gone.

 

[nostradamus]

america west pilot update


"""On Saturday evening, AWAPPA published it's recommendations regarding USAPA membership and dues obligations. Leonidas LLC would like to again affirm the guidance offered therein, as we have long been proponents of USAPA membership. The most frequent rebuttal we've heard is that people are unwilling to pay an entity seemingly bent on their destruction. That we understand, however given the limited choices available to us, we believe that membership still remains the best possible option. There is little reason to forestall the inevitable application of “Section 29†and possible termination for failure to pay dues. Since paying dues will eventually become an enforceable obligation, we should begin to exercise as much political influence as our size will allow, and sooner rather than later. It has been clear and obvious that both USAPA and the company want as many West pilots gone as possible- why make it easy for them? It is likewise clear that the union would just assume not have to deal with our political might. By not joining, you are playing into their hand. Now, every former AWA pilot should also accept the fact that we will have to both pay dues and fund our litigation as long as it takes. Though that is an unpleasant reality, it is nonetheless true. Review USAPA's presented seniority list and consider how much the alternative would cost you and your family- dues plus litigation expenses are a bargain by comparison.

Lastly, and unbelievably so, it appears that the company is poised to continue to harm the West in their misguided efforts to eliminate us. Though not announcing additional furloughs, the company is nonetheless planning to downgrade an additional twelve captains. Oh, so those twelve captains need not be concerned with a forty-thousand dollar pay cut, as it is merely the result of a minor “staffing adjustment.†Well, now that you put it that way, we guess that just makes it fine then. How about the recall of twelve wrongfully furloughed first officers to correct your “ staffing imbalance.†One would expect our union to scream bloody murder about this in light of the fact that many “third- lister†new hires will continue to remain employed for some time even as many West pilots are presently furloughed or downgraded. This is directly counter to the plain language and intent of the Transition Agreement. The nice thing about both the company and USAPA is that they continue to create a massive mound of evidence on a daily basis.

Please continue to support our litigation financially, and likewise provide additional financial support to the “Cactus 18†as well. The work of Lat Celmins and his legal team as funded by the “Cactus 18†is an absolute necessity and is not optional for any West pilot. Remember that your name is also “John Doe.†""

 

[pilotn79]

Your a quick one.. or not. 😉

I see that you are challenging my heritage. I have a challenge for you. Let's play a game called which us air mishap are we talking about? Let's start with US Air 5050, would you please turn your transponder off, I am showing that you are a submarine. Which mishap are we speaking of?

I asked you for a simple question about arbitration, maybe you have a little more info about 5050, please let me know if this has anything to do with the Confederacy.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Remember that your name is also “John Doe.â€￾ ""

Not really. Not unless you've done something stupid and illegal. I would suppose only 1% to 2% max might also be named "John Doe."

 

[nostradamus]

america west pilots leonidas lawyer.

""Leonidas LLC would like to again affirm the guidance offered therein, as we have long been proponents of USAPA membership.""

Judge;

Great, please provide an example of you being a proponent of membership.

america west lawyer;

""_____________________""

(Fill in the blank please someone.)

 

[EastUS]

I see that you are challenging my heritage. I have a challenge for you. Let's play a game called which us air mishap are we talking about? Let's start with US Air 5050, would you please turn your transponder off, I am showing that you are a submarine. Which mishap are we speaking of?

Aww..how very "cute" it is indeed to make self righteous jokes regarding a tragic error that cost some people their lives. While I normally don't get on board with pointing fingers at past issues; Nos is quite correct in his observations, and there's nothing any out west can do to actually argue with them. The truth that you had drug runners flying for AWA, picket line/strike breakers against a foreign carrier flying for AWA, and a pair of exemplery cases of "Integrity Matters" who were properly arrested and convicted after attempting to fly passengers around while drunk as skunks...(we can all only wonder jsut how successful their flights that day would have been) well...you really can't dispute any of that..can you? Heck..just on these boards alone you have a beacon for "INTEGRITY MATTERS" who's a self proclaimed, but demonstrably fake "war hero". You've another that stated in 2005 that seniority was/is..will always be based on longevity, but has completely flipped on that since Nic. You have your vast reserves of "heroic Spartan warriors" such as Leondias himself touting such noble notions as "I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"..who later went on to publicly state that it was his desire to see the families of the east pilots suffer as well. (thread links available upon resquest).

In short "gentlemen"...you're entire fantasy regarding just how much "Integrity" you possess as a group is an utter and complete "joke" for all to easilly see....except, amazingly enough...yourselves it seems. You might get a bit more social mileage by dropping the fantasized, and uttelry childish BS of some supposedly "Integrity" laden, "Righteous Position".

 

[EastUS]

Not really. Not unless you've done something stupid and illegal. I would suppose only 1% to 2% max might also be named "John Doe."

It's "interesting" to observe the continued "Sir, sir..gimmee money sir" coming from the mighty "Army" out there. Since, by ALL published west propoganda, the "Cactus 18" did absolutely nothing wrong or at all illegal, you would think that all they'd have to do is tell the truth in court and all would be well. Aren't courtrooms definably wisdom incarnate and perfection in process by west beliefs? Why should anyone out west be at all worried?

 

[nostradamus]

maybe you have a little more info about 5050,

USair flt 5050 was a tragedy, as I am sure you are alluding to. In answer to your request for more info, I have provided the following link, I hope this is helpful providing more information as you requested.

The flight attendants did one hell of a job during this incident.

""The quick thinking and i n i t i a t i v e o f f l i g h t
attendants, who were not required by the FAA to receive d i t c h i n g t r a i n i n g i n the
water, expedited the evacuation o f passengers from the a i r c r a f t .""


USair flt 5050 NTSB info.

 

[pilotn79]

USair flt 5050 was a tragedy, as I am sure you are alluding to. In answer to your request for more info, I have provided the following link, I hope this is helpful providing more information as you requested.
The flight attendants did one hell of a job during this incident.

I don't doubt it. If you had FA's like Int'l Shannon, I am sure they did one hell of a job. She's quite the fighter and a lot of people, East and West, were praying for her.

 

[Phoenix]

I see that you are challenging my heritage. I have a challenge for you. Let's play a game called which us air mishap are we talking about? Let's start with US Air 5050, would you please turn your transponder off, I am showing that you are a submarine. Which mishap are we speaking of?

I asked you for a simple question about arbitration, maybe you have a little more info about 5050, please let me know if this has anything to do with the Confederacy.

Easy trigger. No challenge to your heritage. I admire that you have confederate money. I've seen plenty of it, and bonds, and uniforms too. As antiques they have a lot of value as well as personal sentimental value.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Funny how truth keeps creeping back into the argument.

What, exactly, is the argument? I don't believe anyone here has denied the statements made by Nos. And how, if the argument is seniority integration, is his statements relevant?

As my fellow west pilot mentioned earlier maybe we could talk safety? We could look at records. Of course I'm sure we will fall short of the mighty AAA pilots! I mean c'mon we are all a bunch of strike breakers who ran drugs on our off days. Right?

BTW my point is that statements like these are irrelevant. We are debating seniority. No amount of childish "Look what your group did" is gonna change how this plays out. Period.