US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/8-12/15

[ClueByFour]

"opinion"... and "appeal-proof"... isn't that an oxymoron?

Not so much. It's one thing to open one's opinion to easy procedural reversal. It's something else if the 9th Circuit is forced to set precedent to overturn him.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Looks like the usappy's on this board are starting to get a little worried :unsure: , you should be and I'm sure there are many within the ucrapa leadership that are worried too. Just take a look at the discovery demand. This should be fun...

Do you usappys get access to ALL of the filed court doc's? If not, you should demand to see them.

Instead of preparing for an appeal, you all should be preparing your malpractice suit against Seham. This isn't the first train he has led over a cliff.


December 1, 2008
VIA FACSIMILE, EMAIL AND
US MAIL
Stanley Lubin
LUBIN & ENOCH, PC
349 North 4th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ 85003-1505
Nicholas Paul Granath
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP
2915 Wayzata Blvd.
Minneapolis, MN 55405
Lee Seham
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP
445 Hamilton Ave., Ste. 1204
White Plains, NY 10601
Stanley Silverstone
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP
2915 Wayzata Blvd.
Minneapolis, MN 55405
Re: Addington, et al. v. USAPA and US Airways, Inc.


Dear Counsel,
We have received your discovery requests and will respond as soon as possible. We will
be sending ours in the next day or so.
I will send you a draft of the Rule 26(f) Case Management Report, hopefully by close of
business tomorrow. I will be available on December 8, 2008 in Phoenix for the meet and confer.
I understand that you have agreed to meet at 10:30 AM at our offices. Lunch will be provided.
We want to take the depositions from the following individuals as soon as possible:
1. Steve Bradford
2. Scott Theuer
3. Mark King
4. Jack Stephan
5. Randy Mowrey
6. Doug Mowery
7. Kim Allen Snider
8. Kevin Berry
9. Tracy Parella
10. Dennis Brennan
11. Arnie Gentile
12. Bob Kirsh

As an accommodation to everyone’s travel demands, we are willing to take all
depositions of USAPA and US Airways witnesses in Charlotte NC, at the law offices of Nexsen
Pruet, 201 S. Tryon Street, Suite 1200. Obviously, the weather is very pleasant here, so if you
prefer to come to Phoenix, we would obviously be happy to agree to do the depositions here. We
would like to schedule the first round of depositions as soon after December 15 as possible. We
can double-track these depositions to get them completed as quickly as possible. Marty Harper
and I will have primary responsibility for these depositions.
We propose that we each agree to accept service of deposition subpoenas for our
respective witnesses, include production of individual notes, email records and files for those
witnesses.
In light of the accelerated discovery procedure, we expect full and complete production,
as part of your Initial Disclosure Statement, and not delayed until your response to other written
discovery requests, of all documents relevant to the issues in the cases, including but not limited
any and all documents of any kind, including electronic records stored on hard drive or other
storage media, emails, and personal notes and records in the following categories:

1. All documents, communications (electronic or document), minutes, and strategy
memoranda or analysis relating to the efforts to the formation of USAPA,
between May, 2007 and April 17, 2008, including, but not limited to: documents
relating to becoming certified as the bargaining agent to replace ALPA, filings
with regulatory agencies or departments, and all communications or information
regarding duties as a union organization, including information received from any
other union organization. This includes all correspondence and advice from legal
counsel, all documents referencing the Nicolau Award, or the integrated seniority
list; :huh:

2. All documents, communications, minutes, and strategy memoranda or analysis
relating to the efforts to the formation of USAPA, between April 18, 2008 and the
present, including, but not limited to internal documents, minutes and records
regarding the drafting of the USAPA Constitution and any amendments thereto,
application or adoption of Nicolau integrated seniority list, drafting seniority list
proposal for submittal to US Airways, including conditions and restrictions
intended to benefit or protect West Pilots, legal analysis of the ruling by Judge
Wake as set forth in the USAPA communications; :huh:

3. All records of the USAPA committee responsible for negotiations with the
Company regarding a single CBA 😱

4. All records of the USAPA committee responsible for merger discussions and
negotiations; 😱

5. All records of the USAPA committee responsible for membership issues,
including the protocol for processing applications for East and West Pilots, and all
applications and rejections of West Pilots; :blink:

6. True and unedited copies of all videos and transcripts of videos of all meeting,
including all USAPA “road showâ€￾ presentations.

7. Personal files of each officer and director of USAPA from May 2007 until the
present relating to communications, organization, negotiations, merger, Nicolau
proceedings and award. :huh:

We intend to our Initial Disclosure Statement no later than Wednesday. We have
described the topic areas for each witness. With full document production, we would anticipate
being able to complete each deposition in approximately four hours, allowing for two depositions
per day, unless we decide to double track the depositions.
I will be the primary contact person for the meet and confer meeting. I would be happy
to discuss this schedule with you at your convenience.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXX
cc:
xxxxxxx
xxxxx
xxx
x

 

[cleardirect]

That might explain where USAPA has been. Digging up and coping every scrap of paper and file in the entire office. Don’t forget all the paperwork at home.

Preparing each person for four hours of depositions is going to take some time. Finding, categorizing, indexing and reviewing each document and file. More billable hours. It is going to be a very merry Christmas at the Seham house this year. Next year might be a little thin but he can worry about that then.

My guess is that the business of the association has come to a screaming halt. I would bet when Bradford confidently stated that “We expect to get sued.â€￾ He never thought that it would be this kind of painful cavity search.

 

[EastUS]

Speaking as a "bottom of the barrel".."rookie".."had not soloed when you got hired"..."childish".."me generation"..proud America West Pilot, I would like to point out that many of our pilots were hired although they had USAIR on their resume.

Umm..OK..I'm somewhat curious here: Weren't those people furloughees from US?..that were therefore, in something of an extremely distressed and perhaps even desperate situation? Was AWA, in any way, their "first choice"? Had however "many" you mentioned belatedly realized that AWA was truly the top tier of all carriers, and bailed from US and refused any openings at all other carriers, so they could finally be able to truly live their airline dreams to the fullest?

Please...Be serious here.

"had not soloed when you got hired". Well..the truth is that the vast majority of yours out there probably hadn't. Get over yourselves. As for: "childish".."me generation"...That model sadly serves quite well to explain the actions and attitudes evidenced out west. Even your propoganda out there's entirely dependent upon the issuance of sophmoric dissertations containing very selective, (and far too limited in range and scope for any intellectual viablility) "philosophocal", bizarrely colorized, historical "sound bites" and heck!..even fantasies of assuming onto yourselves Spartan military sacrifice and the proper glory associated with long dead, true heros that actually did something with their lives...(above and beyond performing the Herculean triumph of obtaining employment with AWA). The entire core premise of the AWA bunch as a whole, (self stated as a "Righteous Positon"..resplendant with oceans of "INTEGRITY of course)..is that your time worked and personal experience far exceeds in value that of other people's with more of both...Quite honestly; I can only garner a sense of perpetually pre-pubeseant narcicissm from such. What am I "missing" herein? ..And please...no need for any of the mighty Spartan "Army" out there to reflexively barrage with another bevy of "Booyooshakas"...or "Dude"...and "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" has already been launched long ago.

 

[Metroyet]

Once again proving beyond a shadow of a doubt why AWA was the place where you went when you couldn't get a job anywhere else.


Boeing Driver

What about the several hundred Easties that keep getting furloughed, multiple times, for years and years YET still return? Why? The vast majority of furloughees never returned.

could it be they, "couldn't get a job anywhere else"?

 

[nic4us]

"Regardless of what you might think, not even a federal judge can force a rank and file membr to write a check. If there are damages that the membership doesnt want to pay, usapa goes bk. bring back alpo for all I care. see who alpo sides with in the LCC/UAL merger."

Megasnoop,

I would not be so sure of this. Perhaps rank and file would escape paying any judgement, but the individuals named in the suit most certainly would carry the burden. It will not be dont pay get fired, it would be dont pay go directly to jail. Further, I do not believe an abuse of bankruptcy laws will get USAPA as far as their abuse of RLA law, RICO statutes,and plain old common sense.

Sometime this spring ALPA will be back seeking support to start a card drive, to have it ready for spring 2010. I think it will be the West who sends them packing, knowing as you point out, we will have our own in house union free of ALPA. However, we do not have to wait to inherit it, we will own it at the adjournment of this coming trial. If you wish to change your status at that time from member to objector feel free but make sure you keep up on your agency shop fees.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Same tired old story, 717. Counting the spoils before the victory. Could have sworn we all decided juries determine damages, not judges. What damages?

Did you actually read my post? I can't predict the outcome of the trial but my point was if Judge Wake finds for the plaintiff USAPA will be paying a monetary price. Your leaders are gradually managing your expectations about the likely outcome of the trial but they haven't yet prepared you for this little tidbit. I'm just trying to help. 😛

Are you saying because usapa hasnt done in 7 months what alpo couldnt do in 36 months, get a single contract, that usapa owes damages? and punitive? ygtbk.

Sounds like you haven't bothered to read the court documents and Wake's Order. But that's your problem, not mine.

But lets say somehow usapa is BKed by a jury, do you really want ALPO back on property?

I have no love for ALPA. I'm a member of a class-action DFR suit against them. (Interestingly, your own Lee Seham is an expert-witness for the TWA side.) I just want a union that isn't attacking me and my colleagues. Based on what I've seen from USAPA thus far ALPA would be a far better choice.

 

[cleardirect]

Umm..OK..I'm somewhat curious here: Weren't those people furloughees from US?..that were therefore, in something of an extremely distressed and perhaps even desperate situation? Was AWA, in any way, their "first choice"? Had however "many" you mentioned belatedly realized that AWA was truly the top tier of all carriers, and bailed from US and refused any openings at all other carriers, so they could finally be able to truly live their airline dreams to the fullest?

Please...Be serious here.

"had not soloed when you got hired". Well..the truth is that the vast majority of yours out there probably hadn't. Get over yourselves. As for: "childish".."me generation"...That model sadly serves quite well to explain the actions and attitudes evidenced out west. Even your propoganda out there's entirely dependent upon the issuance of sophmoric dissertations containing very selective, (and far too limited in range and scope for any intellectual viablility) "philosophocal", bizarrely colorized, historical "sound bites" and heck!..even fantasies of assuming onto yourselves Spartan military sacrifice and the proper glory associated with long dead, true heros that actually did something with their lives...(above and beyond performing the Herculean triumph of obtaining employment with AWA). The entire core premise of the AWA bunch as a whole, (self stated as a "Righteous Positon"..resplendant with oceans of "INTEGRITY of course)..is that your time worked and personal experience far exceeds in value that of other people's with more of both...Quite honestly; I can only garner a sense of perpetually pre-pubeseant narcicissm from such. What am I "missing" herein? ..And please...no need for any of the mighty Spartan "Army" out there to reflexively barrage with another bevy of "Booyooshakas"...or "Dude"...and "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" has already been launched long ago.

East US,

PERSONAL REMARK REMOVED BY MODERATOR

Just to let you know. Not all of us in the west are 20 or 30 years old punks as you think . I suggest that you go ask one of the former merger committee members the average age of the west pilots and the east pilots. You may be surprised. Second unlike the east this is not our first airline. Many people came from other flying jobs. So please do not speak of having less experience. You have no idea and are making assumptions without facts. The only thing that may be true is the we have less time at AWA but not in an airplane.

Your name calling is getting tiresome. It you can not make a post without ranting on using insulting terms, please stop posting.

As far as your content. You really add nothing to the discussion. Other than your predictable

“We were here longer so we deserve more.â€￾ the rest was simple name calling. We all know your position. If you have anything else please add it. Otherwise how many more times are we going to have to see?

“Booyooshakas"...or "Dude"...and "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"

It was said, but how long ago. Can we move on now?

 

[pilotn79]

I have serious news for you: he went to Harvard law, and by the time you become an appointed District Court judge, you probably either don't suffer from a "home town" mentality, or are smart enough to make the opinion appeal-proof.

I don't think he was influenced by "home town" Dems like Mayor Gordon and Gov Napalatano who are influenced by the pro-illegal alien lobby. Here is an example:


Judge upholds Arizona hiring law
February 08, 2008 in print edition A-16

A federal judge Thursday upheld a controversial new Arizona law that mandates the closure of businesses that knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

U.S. District Judge Neil Wake rejected the arguments of business and immigrant-rights groups, which sued saying the law was an unconstitutional usurping of the federal government’s right to regulate immigration.

“The act does not make employers conform to a stricter form of conduct than federal law,â€￾ Wake wrote in his 37-page decision.

Under the law, a company is placed on probation the first time it is found to have knowingly hired undocumented workers. The second time, its license is revoked, essentially ending its ability to operate in Arizona.

Employers called that punishment “the death penalty.â€￾ They contended it was too harsh and would push them to discriminate against Latinos to minimize the risk of being closed. Backers argued that it put teeth in oft-flouted federal statutes that forbid hiring illegal immigrants.

The employer and immigration-rights groups said they would appeal to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. They had been expecting Wake – who was openly critical of their arguments in court hearings in December – to rule against them.

The law is the only one in the country that mandates the closure of businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Several other states have contacted Arizona looking to duplicate it. Meanwhile, many businesses say they will not expand into Arizona while the law is in effect.

County prosecutors had agreed not to enforce the law until March 1, to allow the appeals to play out. But even before the statute went into effect Jan. 1, it was credited with driving Latino workers from the state.

Some employers have privately acknowledged firing illegal immigrants in response to the bill.

Though there are no hard numbers on how many immigrants have left the state this year, some school districts have seen enrollment drop. And legislators from Arizona’s Mexican neighbor state, Sonora, have complained that the law is driving too many people back across the border.

The Arizona Legislature is considering revisions to the statute, including one clarifying that it applies only to workers hired after Jan. 1.

nicholas.riccardi@ latimes.com

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I don't think he was influenced by "home town" Dems like Mayor Gordon and Gov Napalatano who are influenced by the pro-illegal alien lobby. Here is an example:


Judge upholds Arizona hiring law

>>>>>snip

What are you saying, p79? That Judge Wake is going to receive "influence" regarding his decision on this proceeding? Just exactly where might that influence come from? Do you feel he is a sports fan and is obligated to root for the home team? Are we trying to manage expectations here? Sheesh.......

First it was all ALPA's fault.

Then it was a semi-lucid old man's fault.

And now its going to be a corrupt Federal Judge's fault.

What's going to be the next excuse for the easts' relentless woes? Stevie B. dropped his "I am your leader" keys through a storm drain in the sidewalk? A wobble in the earth's rotation?

In reality, none of the above ever happened, so maybe, just maybe there's a another cause for all of your troubles. One much closer to home........

 

[pilotn79]

What are you saying, p79? That Judge Wake is going to receive "influence" regarding his decision on this proceeding? Just exactly where might that influence come from? Do you feel he is a sports fan and is obligated to root for the home team? Are we trying to manage expectations here? Sheesh.......

First it was all ALPA's fault.

Then it was a semi-lucid old man's fault.

And now its going to be a corrupt Federal Judge's fault.

I'll add one to your list:
George Bush apointee with a bias against (pseudo) unions.

 

[N924PS]

What am I "missing" herein? ..And please...no need for any of the mighty Spartan "Army" out there to reflexively barrage with another bevy of "Booyooshakas"...or "Dude"...and "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" has already been launched long ago.

Still not sure what a "Booyooshaka" is. Must be some kind of Air Force Academy slang, I guess.

You just want the every single West pilot to pay for the lack of movement and even regression you experienced in 20 plus years with Airways. They had no hand in your career and should not be penalized for years of bad management and poor decision making by USAir that caused your predicament.

I only hope Judge Wake can keep this litigation on the fast track. The sooner it ends the better for all USAirways pilots, East and West.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Booyashaka, which shares a vague connection to Booyakasha, is variously defined in the Urban Dictionary as an exclamation used in those circumstances when someone has been "owned bigtime", or when orgasm is reached during sex, or in the communication of a joke - following the drum roll.

Ali G, the urban philosopher, defines Booyakasha as "listen up rudeboi everytin irie whayaso lickylicky ya wangagot fifman".

I hope this helps clarify.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Judge Wake has denied usapa's motion to reconsider. Yet another courtroom defeat in a short amount of time.

When will you in the east realize that Seman is nothing but a salesman, and not a lawyer?

You guys are pi$$ing in the wind, and a huricane is coming your way, SOON!!!

 

[N924PS]

Ali G, the urban philosopher, defines Booyakasha as "listen up rudeboi everytin irie whayaso lickylicky ya wangagot fifman".

I hope this helps clarify.

Thanks for the info. Can't say as I've followed the writings of the urban philosopher, Ali G.