US IAM Fleet Service topic 6/28-

[Edward]

Here is the new Fleet Service topic. All Labor thread rules apply. No personal attacks or comments. Thank you.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Charlotte shift managers are writing ESONS for stupid stuff like not wearing vests :rolleyes Couple of questions if vests make us safer(and no one has been able to explain yet how a vest makes us safer) why aren't ALL stations required to wear vests & not just a few ?

Also can some one explain these esons ? How many does it take to get points or what ever they do

 

[Jetloader]

Charlotte shift managers are writing ESONS for stupid stuff like not wearing vests :rolleyes Couple of questions if vests make us safer(and no one has been able to explain yet how a vest makes us safer) why aren't ALL stations required to wear vests & not just a few ?

Also can some one explain these esons ? How many does it take to get points or what ever they do

Moreover, why aren't ALL humans walking around on the ramp required to wear vests? Is the safety of pilots, mechanics, cleaners, cops, gate agents, TSA, etc. less essential than those of rampers? Are the afromentioned folks immune to the "hazards" on the ramp? Or are they just smart enough to avoid being run over? Can anyone demonstrate that a vest has ever prevented an accident or saved a life? If so, then why isn't everyone on the ramp wearing one? If not, then why do we have to wear them? Hmmmm?

 

[ChockJockey]

I think this might have something to do with the insurance company US has that pays out on accidents/injuries/etc. There are some agents in PHX that got ahold of some of the vests the SWA agents wear on the other side of Terminal 4; these are basically a large reflective orange and yellow belt with two large crossed straps of the same color material that goes over the shoulder. It's skimpy, and a lot cooler than the full cloth vests we're issued.

Apparently the union has been advising these agents that these aren't company-approved safety vests as they're only rated ANSI I whereas US requires ANSI II reflective wear on the ramp. From what I understood it came down to the fact that if something happened to an agent when he or she was wearing insufficient or no safety gear, the airline's insurance company might only partially cover the accident or not at all.

According to the Ground Operations Manual (peace be upon it), vest are required only during the marshaling in of and pushing-back of an aircraft. Once the nosegear is chocked the vests can come off until right before brakes are released for pushback. So if an agent isn't wearing his vest during these times he can get an ESON for it.

Managers can issue ESON's for just about anything; whether it's legitimate or not is debatable. The fine print on the bottom says that they are mere safety reminders but hint that disciplinary actions could be taken in the future if the agent is unwilling or unable to rectify his safety shortcomings. Be that as it may, the ESONs aren't worth the paper they're written on if they can't show where a documented procedure wasn't followed. I haven"t heard of anyone getting written up for having accumulated ESONs...has anyone else?

Moreover, why aren't ALL humans walking around on the ramp required to wear vests? Is the safety of pilots, mechanics, cleaners, cops, gate agents, TSA, etc. less essential than those of rampers? Are the afromentioned folks immune to the "hazards" on the ramp? Or are they just smart enough to avoid being run over?

I don't know which station you're at but in PHX all of the fuelers, caterers, and cleaners (all contractors) wear safety vests. These and rampers are those that spend most of their working time on the ramp. Police and city employees typically wear them.

Can anyone demonstrate that a vest has ever prevented an accident or saved a life? If so, then why isn't everyone on the ramp wearing one? If not, then why do we have to wear them? Hmmmm?

I hope you like to read:

REPORT TO CONGRESS
Injuries and Fatalities of Workers Struck by Vehicles on Airport Aprons
Prepared by: U.S. Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration

I personally have no issue with wearing my vest for the 20 or so minutes per shift I'm supposed to. At night, with the way some of these idiots drive (even in on occupied gate) I have no problem wearing a bright orange reflective vest atop my dark blue work uniform...

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

If the Ramp Service Manual states when you only have to wear it, then I would file harassment charges agains any member of management trying to supercede policy.

 

[Dog Wonder]

If you are a Manager with no knowledge, experience, or people skills.

You can point to your ESON count as evidence of doing something.

 

[mike33]

If the Ramp Service Manual states when you only have to wear it, then I would file harassment charges agains any member of management trying to supercede policy.

I believe station policy supercedes company policy if it's more restictive ......

It could be a losing battle not worth diving into.......

 

[Harry Callahan]

If you are a Manager with no knowledge, experience, or people skills.

You can point to your ESON count as evidence of doing something.

That sums up the Charlotte shift managers

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Moreover, why aren't ALL humans walking around on the ramp required to wear vests?

In Europe most of them are.

I don't get all this bitching and moaning about a few ounces of mesh...this isn't plate mail armor you're being asked to wear.Breakaway mesh held together with velcro for cryin' out loud,you're not welded into the damn thing.


At AA we are required to wear the vest anytime we are outside on the field, and that includes the twenty five foot walk from the clock into the terminal.There are managers that do nothing BUT harass you for a vest while the operation is going down the drain.

We've had over 500 struck/struck by injuries system wide over the last two years, including one guy who lost both his legs below the knee after getting run over by a push out tractor as he hiked across the ramp, at night,in the rain with no vest on.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

If you are a Manager with no knowledge, experience, or people skills.

You can point to your ESON count as evidence of doing something.

I want YOU to be my shift manager!
B)

 

[necigrad]

I still fail to see how vest contribute to safety. The ramp is a low speed environment. At most the ramp area will be 25MPH, usually less. Company procedure dictates a speed of 5MPH within 100 feet of an aircraft. Even at the higher 25MPH, the only visibility issue will be the inattention of the vehicle operator; you can't be seen if no one one is looking. Factor in that anyone on the ramp should be constantly looking around them and there's no excuse, even without a vest, for being hit.

I do, however, wear my vest when working on a gate. Gives me one more reason to belittle and berate anyone that hits me.

 

[Kev3188]

I still fail to see how vest contribute to safety. The ramp is a low speed environment. At most the ramp area will be 25MPH, usually less. Company procedure dictates a speed of 5MPH within 100 feet of an aircraft.

Kind of ironic that we all have to wear vests, but can drive those same belt loaders, tugs, etc. at 25 MPH w/o a seat belt. I wonder why the companies don't enforce that?

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

I still fail to see how vest contribute to safety. The ramp is a low speed environment. At most the ramp area will be 25MPH, usually less. Company procedure dictates a speed of 5MPH within 100 feet of an aircraft. Even at the higher 25MPH, the only visibility issue will be the inattention of the vehicle operator; you can't be seen if no one one is looking. Factor in that anyone on the ramp should be constantly looking around them and there's no excuse, even without a vest, for being hit.

I do, however, wear my vest when working on a gate. Gives me one more reason to belittle and berate anyone that hits me.

ehhhh... What you say is true, but 5 mph on a rig is enough to kill someone, especially if one or more parties isn't paying attention. That's why they're called ACCIDENTS.

Phoenix is crazy. On the end gates, people are always flying around there, and are constantly checking their papers to see where their next bag drop is. It gets really crazy out there sometimes.

I hear CLT is WAYYY different. People drive slowly there. Good. I wish we could do that. Sometimes people cut across the gates full speed when they could go around.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Chill:
If they want to drive like idiots, they need to be jerked down a notch or three. In Charlotte we have some of those & we are working on adjusting their attitude.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Right-O man.

Nobody is safe out there when we drive like that.