US Pilot labor thread 12/2-12/8

[nic4us]

You mean the one's that had 15 years length of service before you were hired? The one's that got hired before you soloed?

No furloughed east pilot had 15 years LOS when I was hired at America West, the aquiring company in case you had not heard.

No furloughed east pilot got hired before I soloed, passed Private,Commercial, and ATP. The later being required if you are a Captain at an airline, just mentioning it in case you did not know, have not been, or simply forgot because it had been awhile.

 

[nic4us]

N924PS

You edited that post so fast, it caught me by surprise.

I still may not have to leave, DOH is not a fact of life yet.

But you are correct we will probably all be seeking employment elsewhere if things do not turn around.

Nic4

 

[Phoenix]

In 1999 when I was hired by TWA our class was told we would inherit the airline. Today I'm barely avoiding being furloughed from my second major carrier. Your prediction for the West is hollow since it presumes neither the industry or the airline will change in any way. Guess what: things change. Even George Nicolau understood that.

Imagine if you still had your DOH... or would you prefer to have guys hired 15 years before be your cushion.?

 

[EastUS]

In 1999 when I was hired by TWA our class was told we would inherit the airline. Today I'm barely avoiding being furloughed from my second major carrier. Your prediction for the West is hollow since it presumes neither the industry or the airline will change in any way. Guess what: things change. Even George Nicolau understood that.

So...It truly does seem that any and all of that "career expectations" nonsense is precisely that = Fantasized nonsense, suitable only for children and the most intellectually "challenged" . Since no one's "expectations' ever serve at all well as a model of future circumstances...Umm...Well...It's not really much of a rational thing to base "seniority" on..is it? Just a thought.

 

[Eastisleast]

From Des Nudo on 10/28/08

"I'm trying to get caught up here...maybe somebody can help me.

Have all of the AWA pilots joined the 'new" union at USAir? If not, why not? (serious question)

What many of us don't understand is how you might expect all the leagal goodies of a union when you don't join, as we've all heard out in the rest of the world. Sorry for my english and typing....not so good."



Didn't you say you worked for US Air for "20+ years"....I guess your english and typing went south after you retired? Stop wasting everyones time on this board with all your personalities, Elixir/Mach Tuck/V1 cut/des nudo and probably high but fast. Just pick one and stick with it dude!

 

[YVINTERN]

Didn't you say you worked for US Air for "20+ years"....I guess your english and typing went south after you retired? Stop wasting everyones time on this board with all your personalities, Elixir/Mach Tuck/V1 cut/des nudo and probably high but fast. Just pick one and stick with it dude!

Bet you it's Bradford on his Pittsburgh layovers 😉

 

[Elevation]

I think there's general agreement on the issue of New Hire list pilots still on the payroll while West list pilots are furloughed, but there's only one set of new hires - those on the New Hire list - per the TA. There is not an East New Hire list or a West New Hire list.

The way USAPA and the company lawyer were snuggling up in court back in Oct. to fight this clear violation of the both pilots contracts you might disagree on the "general agreement part" jim.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I was thinking more about the pilots that post here. As for USAPA, we'll just have to see how vigorously they pursue the grievance.

Jim

 

[wopr21]

Isn't "inheriting the airline" one of those career expectations that doesn't exist...

Jim

Yes it is. There is only one constant in this pilot fabricated equation and that is DOH.

It is all we have from the beginning to the end, just like a birthday.

Let me be more clear. Through DOH, the time will come for one to be senior. As people leave from the top,
more move up from the bottom. I miss-typed by saying "inherited". I admit my mistake.

I do not have a problem with someone from a more senior combined airline going ahead of me. I understand that I will be senior also one day. It might have slowed my "career expectation ", but I understand that.

This industry as well as the country needs to return to simpler values and set these greedy ,wolfish
values behind us. It is destroying the profession.

I never thought I would see us in this country evolve to such a sense of entitlement ..but thats another thread

Regards

wopr

 

[BoeingBoy]

As people leave from the top, more move up from the bottom.

I understand that I will be senior also one day.

wopr

Sounds like expectations to me....

How much did the bottom active pilot move up between 1991 and 1997? Between 2002 and 2007?

Your "one constant" is just a way for the side with greater longevity to get theirs first while handing IOU's to those on the other side - IOU's that may not be worth the paper they're written on in a few short years.

Frankly, I don't care whether you think expectations should play a role in seniority integration or not. But at least have the moral consistency to either acknowledge as valid or discount all expectations. This game of West expectations being meaningless but those ascribed to the West by the East being iron clad ceases to be amusing.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

So...It truly does seem that any and all of that "career expectations" nonsense is precisely that = Fantasized nonsense, suitable only for children and the most intellectually "challenged" . Since no one's "expectations' ever serve at all well as a model of future circumstances...Umm...Well...It's not really much of a rational thing to base "seniority" on..is it? Just a thought.

In this case we do not base seniority on the individuals expectations. We base seniority on the rational expectations as assigned by a third party arbitration board.

Yes, your personal feelings of your DOH seniority expectations are fantasized nonsense, as are mine. That is why someone else decided what your reasonable expectations were, and in this case they were not going to be DOH, as told to the east over and over by the company, the West, and the arbitrator.

Since, as you point out future speculation is irrelevant, our seniority is based on the here and now, what do you our I have today, not speculation on who is going to inherit what tomorrow.

The most "challenged" seems to be USURPA and their lawyer, who for some reason do not understand that the east entered into a contractual agreement that had only two conditions for the merging of our separate seniority list.

Condition-1. That it be Final
Condition-2. That it be Binding.

If you cannot understand that personal expectations were not used, at least try and understand that.

 

[EastUS]

We base seniority on the rational expectations as assigned by a third party arbitration board.

If you cannot understand that personal expectations were not used, at least try and understand that.

Huh??? As in "WTF???" Ok. I get it now. Expectations are an agreeably insane method of assigning seniority....unless they're "expectations as assigned by a third party"???

Thanks. It all makes perfect sense now. 🙄

 

[EastUS]

Yes it is. There is only one constant in this pilot fabricated equation and that is DOH.

I never thought I would see us in this country evolve to such a sense of entitlement ..

A very heartfelt Amen to that.

 

[LSS]

The most "challenged" seems to be USURPA and their lawyer, who for some reason do not understand that the east entered into a contractual agreement that had only two conditions for the merging of our separate seniority list.

Condition-1. That it be Final
Condition-2. That it be Binding.

If you cannot understand that personal expectations were not used, at least try and understand that.

Nic... no there were 3 conditions... the most important of which you neglected to state...was that the NIC was incorporated into a joint contract that was then ratified by the majority of the pilot group...

 

[exB717Flyer]

Imagine if you still had your DOH... or would you prefer to have guys hired 15 years before be your cushion.?

What I want is irrelevent and what you want is irrelevent. Our sides couldn't agree and it was arbitrated. And in case you didn't notice even a judge has a problem with how you guys are handling things. Feeling optimistic about the trial and Mr. Seham's advice to USAPA that the Nicolau list is negotiable without any input from the West?