US pilot labor thread 6/21-6/27

[tazz]

"I, too, am a decorated USAF veteran and none of my peers go around calling other pilots punks" If true? =Welcome to the club..and a punk is a punk...period. Perhaps you flew in "kinder, gentler" sorts of squadrons?..A lot of "Sensitivity Training Seminars" perhaps? .."calling other pilots punks" strikes you as horribly "harsh"?...Words fail me...I must have been with the most unruly and uncouth ruffians, bereft of all "Integrity" then..since "punk" would have registered as little more than a warm term of endearment at times

"They do, however, recognize a severe lack of integrity and honor and won't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you." SURE "they" would Feel free to unleash them on me..heck...you/"they" sound terribly ferocious

"Regarding jumpseat denials, I believe other airlines are denying the east as well. EVERY time I jumpseat I am questioned whether I am east or west and nobody appears to like the east."

On all the above counts....Have a nice trip through Fantasyland...and have a good evening..I've had my fill of westie BS for now.

"Very intelligent response, EastUs. "Ummmm....sure....right....roll eyes. My teenage daughter uses the same response when she has absoloutely nothing to say yet she attempts to show me how much smarter she is than I." Ever consider the real possiblity that she IS?

EastUs: as usual you're missing the point. My USAF peers don't disrespect fellow aviators because they perceive them as younger or less experienced. They will knock you into next week should you dishonor an agreement made in good faith. The east has been referring to the west as "rookies and punks" since day one of this fiasco. They then follow that insult with totally disregarding an entire process they agreed to and demanded in the first place. You are right about one thing, however, my teenage daughter is MUCH smarter than I am.

By the way, I am having a nice trip through fantasyland. When jumpseating to work the other day an OAL captain denied an east guy to make room for me. On the flight he told me that he just wasn't in the mood for the headache that he knew the east guy would have given him. I have to believe that the east guys are having a tough time out there. Regarding having your fill of westie BS for now...... I have had my fill of eastie BS to last ten lifetimes.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Very intelligent response, EastUs. "Ummmm....sure....right....roll eyes. My teenage daughter uses the same response when she has absoloutely nothing to say yet she attempts to show me how much smarter she is than I. Your comment regarding Leonidas is pointless. You compare the rhetoric of one, or a handful, discontented west pilots with the collective arrogance of the east. As for the aviation community I speak of....No I don't speaK For everyone, only those I have come across since April 17. You see, I commute to the east coast on any other airline except Us Airways unless I can catch a west flight. EVERY captain I have requested a jumpseat from, and I mean EVERY, has asked whether I was an east or west pilot. The common consensus being that they can't tolerate the east pilots in close proximity. The east pilots must have an awful time getting to work these days.

Regarding the decorated USAF verteran calling the west pilots punks. I, too, am a decorated USAF veteran and none of my peers go around calling other pilots punks. They do, however, recognize a severe lack of integrity and honor and won't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you.

Your group is angry and frustrated because our group did an end run around the Nic and ALPA. What we did was done in plain sight, sanctioned by the NMB, with the full knowledge of management, the entire pilot group, our previous CBA, etc.

Your group, however, resorts to despicable, underhanded and quite possibly illegal tactics in order to vent your collective frustration at the turn of events.

And regarding your dismissal of the actions of a handfull of your fellow pilots - it is more than just a handfull - they include your leadership - and their actions have done irreperable harm to your misdirected cause.

 

[tazz]

Uh....excuse me...reality check....


USAPA WON that election in April. Did you somehow miss that inconvenient (for you) truth? And you have the incredible naivete to talk about trying to get through to me?

LOL!

Sure, usapa won the election in April. That is the LAST thing they will win.

 

[tazz]

Your group is angry and frustrated because our group did an end run around the Nic and ALPA. What we did was done in plain sight, sanctioned by the NMB, with the full knowledge of management, the entire pilot group, our previous CBA, etc.

True, you have done an end run around alpa but the fat lady hasn't sung over the nic yet. Don't know how you will do an end run around binding arbitration (which you agreed to), the company's acceptance of the list when presented by alpa and the new legislation passed last year regarding fair and equitable seniority merges.

We truly live in interesting times.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Your group is angry and frustrated because our group did an end run around the Nic and ALPA. What we did was done in plain sight, sanctioned by the NMB, with the full knowledge of management, the entire pilot group, our previous CBA, etc.

True, you have done an end run around alpa but the fat lady hasn't sung over the nic yet. Don't know how you will do an end run around binding arbitration (which you agreed to), the company's acceptance of the list when presented by alpa and the new legislation passed last year regarding fair and equitable seniority merges.

We truly live in interesting times.

Like I've said before. The only things in this life that are truly binding are death and taxes.

 

[tazz]

Like I've said before. The only things in this life that are truly binding are death and taxes.

That must make your wife feel very secure.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Like I've said before. The only things in this life that are truly binding are death and taxes.

You forgot union dues/or agency fees.

 

[EastUS]

EastUs: as usual you're missing the point. My USAF peers don't disrespect fellow aviators because they perceive them as younger or less experienced. They will knock you into next week should you dishonor an agreement made in good faith.

" as usual you're missing the point." Do you HAVE one?
"My USAF peers don't disrespect fellow aviators because they perceive them as younger or less experienced." No doubt the newbies are honored and venerated around...ummm...where did you say you flew again? One thing was dammm sure in my experience = The younger and less experienced certainly didn't offer the least bit of "lip" to those on the other side of that equation.

"They will knock you into next week should you dishonor an agreement made in good faith." Well Golly! In addition to that being a totally "terrifying" thought!....Not to mention a rather shocking dismissal of the UCMJ ....Ummm...Some might consider that as your being just a tad bit "disrespectful" of your "peer" who's older and more experienced.

QUOTE (Piedmont1984 @ Jun 22 2008, 07:49 AM)
Like I've said before. The only things in this life that are truly binding are death and taxes."

tazz: "That must make your wife feel very secure." I'm not sure just where and how you accumulated your supposed experience, being a self described "Decorated USAF vet"...but, if you've honestly missed "The only things in this life that are truly binding are death and taxes."...you've lived a pretty sheltered existence thus far.

tazz: "By the way, I am having a nice trip through fantasyland." It does seem the case that you are. "When jumpseating to work the other day an OAL captain denied an east guy to make room for me." If even remotely true?...You must be so very proud of yourself. I know I'd be bristling with "Integrity" if I did such a noble act. In truth?..I would NOT take said seat. If the bozo commanding the aircraft dismissed one of you guys/"my" same company, in favor of myself?..I'd have told him to shove it....but then...I don't have your huge degree of "INTEGRITY". Heck..have another "Decoration" for west heroism on me. Honestly: Who do you think you're fooling with your BS?

Again...Have a nice trip through Fantasyland.

A never-ending source of amusement.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Sure, usapa won the election in April. That is the LAST thing they will win.

Does that prophecy have the same weight and credibility as the previous westie predictions? e.g. "you won't get 200 cards," "not even half the east pilots will vote for USAPA."

Keep prognosticating. You guys have done a great job of "foot in mouth" in that respect so far. It's fun to see you lose every prediction you have made. As you will this one.

 

[EastUS]

Does that prophecy have the same weight and credibility as the previous westie predictions? e.g. "you won't get 200 cards," "not even half the east pilots will vote for USAPA."

Keep prognosticating. You guys have done a great job of "foot in mouth" in that respect so far. It's fun to see you lose every prediction you have made. As you will this one.

"It's fun to see you lose every prediction you have made." The fact that, as a group..they've been wrong EVERY single time doesn't seem to phase them in the least. They just keep upping the BS antes. That's pretty much pathologically insane behavior to most observers, and it doesn't look to change anytime soon..."Interesting TImes" indeed. I'll confess that I'm outta' sympathy for them myself.

Why any/all attempts at reasoned discussion to sort out the obviously unworkable nature of Nic never got past even first base with these folks will always remain a mystery to me.

 

[checksix]

Nah, it's fun to poke your fetid cages, but no one I know gets bent out of shape over what goes on here. You are quite predictible though. Many try to get through to you, but it's like trying to teach a cinder block to fetch.

And therein lies one of your most challenging problems; you can't see the forest through the trees. You're missing the big picture. Your analysis is 180 degrees off base luvn737.

I challenge you to ask a friend of yours who is objective, ask them to look at a few pages on this board and ask them:

1. Who is bent out of shape?
2. Who is being driven by anger?
3. Who is making rational points vs. emotional responses?

Let me ask you, who do you think is winning this war you are fighting? The east has not even claimed there's a war, they simply have made the right decisions to right the wrongs and have been extremely successful in moving the ball. They continue to do the same thing over and over. After you answer who is winning the west's war, ask yourself who's behavior has gotten them in trouble? Who's continuing to make the wrong decisions, over and over?

Yes, we are predictable, you know we're going to make the right decision and follow through. You've been out played and out maneuvered in every step you've made. We don't make idle threats and we are not unreasonable. We don't scare and we stay on track. Your numerous threats fall on deaf ears, they are perceived as nothing more than emotional responses.

Perhaps you and your group should take a step back and look at the big picture, perhaps you should try working with the east if you want to get somewhere. Why? Clearly, you're not going to get anywhere with your current effort and direction.

 

[checksix]

You see, I commute to the east coast on any other airline except Us Airways unless I can catch a west flight. EVERY captain I have requested a jumpseat from, and I mean EVERY, has asked whether I was an east or west pilot. The common consensus being that they can't tolerate the east pilots in close proximity. The east pilots must have an awful time getting to work these days.

I commute offline to the east coast, never have I been denied a jumpseat. Further, I have never been asked whether I was east or west. I have been queried as to what is going on over here, but that is absolutely it. I do this on a weekly basis so I have no idea how you can make the above statement. Think about it, other pilot groups don't really care what's going on at US Airways, they could care less, they have their own issues. Period.

 

[checksix]

When jumpseating to work the other day an OAL captain denied an east guy to make room for me. On the flight he told me that he just wasn't in the mood for the headache that he knew the east guy would have given him. I have to believe that the east guys are having a tough time out there.

As I stated, I've never had a problem in anyway whatsoever, and that's on a weekly basis my friend. Your story is so far out there, I've never talked to any pilot on the east who has stated there are jumpseat problems. We do, however, all know about the childish and unprofessional effort by some west pilots denying a jumpseat. I also know that your pilots are being called in to the west chief pilots office when you do deny jumpseats to fellow US Airways pilots.

You will learn, as you gain experience - responsible, professional pilots don't screw around with the jumpseat.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Sure, usapa won the election in April. That is the LAST thing they will win.

Is this another famous west prognostication? How have the others gone so far? So, like the rest of your brethren that make these predictions, am I to assume after the first USAPA "win" you too will disappear like so many others? What a stupid statement. Oh thats right, I'll predict that whatever "Win" by USAPA won't count because it isn't big big enough to suit you.

 

[checksix]

That must make your wife feel very secure.

Based on your responses thus far, they come across as very immature. Are you a new hire?