Had certain West pilots (with the encouragement of AWAPPA and Leonidas) not engaged in malicious activities against USAPA there would have been no lawsut.
US Pilot Labor Thread 7/20-7/26
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Merger Committee Update
July 23, 2008
This is a Merger Committee update for the week ending July 18. Your Merger Committee was in Charlotte this past week to work with the USAPA Union Officers as well as the Negotiating Advisory Committee in preparation for the presentation of our date-of-hire list to the Company.
We are in the final stages of the certification of our seniority list. In addition to our work in Charlotte, the Committee attended the Philadelphia Domicile meeting and had the opportunity to communicate directly with the pilots in attendance.
We sincerely appreciate the thoughtful input we received from you, the line pilots.
We will be attending all of the Domicile meetings coming up in the near future (listed below) and look forward to the opportunity to speak with all of you. As we move forward with our new union it is imperative that we all remain involved in the process. We would like to encourage all of you to stay informed and stay engaged.
BOS— Monday, July 28th @1100—Logan Hilton (walk through the central garage).
LGA--- Tuesday, July 29th @1000---Shuttle Conference Room
DCA---Wednesday, July 30th @ 1000---Rm 260, Concourse (above Delta security)
Randy Mowrey-Chairman
704-307-0381
rmowrey@usairlinepilots.org
Bob Davison
704-451-2975
bdavison@usairlinepilots.org
Mike Turpen
704-307-1876
mtusapa@yahoo.com
July 23, 2008
This is a Merger Committee update for the week ending July 18. Your Merger Committee was in Charlotte this past week to work with the USAPA Union Officers as well as the Negotiating Advisory Committee in preparation for the presentation of our date-of-hire list to the Company.
We are in the final stages of the certification of our seniority list. In addition to our work in Charlotte, the Committee attended the Philadelphia Domicile meeting and had the opportunity to communicate directly with the pilots in attendance.
We sincerely appreciate the thoughtful input we received from you, the line pilots.
We will be attending all of the Domicile meetings coming up in the near future (listed below) and look forward to the opportunity to speak with all of you. As we move forward with our new union it is imperative that we all remain involved in the process. We would like to encourage all of you to stay informed and stay engaged.
BOS— Monday, July 28th @1100—Logan Hilton (walk through the central garage).
LGA--- Tuesday, July 29th @1000---Shuttle Conference Room
DCA---Wednesday, July 30th @ 1000---Rm 260, Concourse (above Delta security)
Randy Mowrey-Chairman
704-307-0381
rmowrey@usairlinepilots.org
Bob Davison
704-451-2975
bdavison@usairlinepilots.org
Mike Turpen
704-307-1876
mtusapa@yahoo.com
Why are you so worried? and why is it you can only hold a 190?
elixir
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what makes you think I'm worried, at all?
ouch...that 190 thing....oweee.
Is this how you "roll" when you have nothing else to say? Start qualifying people based on the airplane they fly?
I'm sure you've seen the seniority list out east...(you know, the one you were licking your chops over?)
Yeah, that one.
Anybody with less than about 5 years in the East system is going to be on the 190...
(and that would be about 600 guys out west.)
what do you want to talk about next, my shoe size?
ouch...that 190 thing....oweee.
Is this how you "roll" when you have nothing else to say? Start qualifying people based on the airplane they fly?
I'm sure you've seen the seniority list out east...(you know, the one you were licking your chops over?)
Yeah, that one.
Anybody with less than about 5 years in the East system is going to be on the 190...
(and that would be about 600 guys out west.)
what do you want to talk about next, my shoe size?
The Leo-Wappa solution.........
From the "suggested conditions" letter to accompany the USAPA membership application:
There is no option available for a US Airways pilot to join USAPA with conditions. A membership application can only be accepted as written and outlined in the USAPA C&BL, as the other 3200 (East and West) active members have agreed to.
A pilot not willing to comply or abide with the membership requirements cannot become a member. That is not to say that he/she will not be represented by USAPA. On the contrary, as required by law, all US Airways pilots are represented by USAPA and therefore required to pay dues germane to his/her representation.
The ALPA Nicolau bargaining position is not being replaced. Simply put, it no longer exists as a bargaining condition under USAPA. To be clear, the Nicolau list was a bargaining position, and therefore is nothing more than a historical bargaining position under ALPA. USAPA is neither required or expected to uphold previous bargaining positions held under the prior bargaining agent.
ALPA could not force the company to accept the Nicolau list was a bargaining position. Had ALPA remained the elected bargaining agent, whether or not the Nicolau list was modified in part or in its entirety would not be a violation of the transition agreement or ALPA merger policy.
The AWA pilots merger attorney, and AWA MEC position was this:
USAPA will present a seniority list to the company that will outline its bargaining position. What ends up being negotiated remains to be seen, as that will be a product of negotiations.
The irony here is that the Leo-Wappa members may find themselves in the same position as the prior east ALPA MEC did in reference to the Nicolau list. Perhaps we can even project the old AWA MECs position above as a possible response from USAPA legal to the Leo-Wappas???
Last, but most importantly, any agreed to seniority list that would result from USAPA-Company negotiations, would require membership ratification in order to become binding on both parties.
From the "suggested conditions" letter to accompany the USAPA membership application:
There is no option available for a US Airways pilot to join USAPA with conditions. A membership application can only be accepted as written and outlined in the USAPA C&BL, as the other 3200 (East and West) active members have agreed to.
A pilot not willing to comply or abide with the membership requirements cannot become a member. That is not to say that he/she will not be represented by USAPA. On the contrary, as required by law, all US Airways pilots are represented by USAPA and therefore required to pay dues germane to his/her representation.
The ALPA Nicolau bargaining position is not being replaced. Simply put, it no longer exists as a bargaining condition under USAPA. To be clear, the Nicolau list was a bargaining position, and therefore is nothing more than a historical bargaining position under ALPA. USAPA is neither required or expected to uphold previous bargaining positions held under the prior bargaining agent.
ALPA could not force the company to accept the Nicolau list was a bargaining position. Had ALPA remained the elected bargaining agent, whether or not the Nicolau list was modified in part or in its entirety would not be a violation of the transition agreement or ALPA merger policy.
The AWA pilots merger attorney, and AWA MEC position was this:
The AWA position goes on further to state:
To be clear, this was the AWA MECs position in regard to the Nicolau list under ALPA. Under USAPA the Nicolau lists no longer exists.
USAPA will present a seniority list to the company that will outline its bargaining position. What ends up being negotiated remains to be seen, as that will be a product of negotiations.
The irony here is that the Leo-Wappa members may find themselves in the same position as the prior east ALPA MEC did in reference to the Nicolau list. Perhaps we can even project the old AWA MECs position above as a possible response from USAPA legal to the Leo-Wappas???
Last, but most importantly, any agreed to seniority list that would result from USAPA-Company negotiations, would require membership ratification in order to become binding on both parties.
You couldn't have stated it any simpler, common sense would lead one to arrive at the same conclusion. Unfortunately, the ALPA bargaining position under Nicolau created the feeling of winning the SuperLotto for the former AWA pilots.
giantfan
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I just don't understand the position of someone junior wanting the same or better than someone who is senior to them. Seniority is not just a word..with it comes experience. Trust me....I live it....I got 30+ yrs and I still have a crappy shift...
Everyone will get theirs eventually. We all have to do our time. Period. End of story.
Hey Giantfan,
Wise words and very true. Eventually, everyone will get their time at the top.
Thanks for the input and perspective.
freedom
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Hmmm , interesting twisting of logic check six , but I doubt that will fly in any court , you see judges have an amazing ability to determine what’s B/S and what’s not B/S …
Two parties agreed to binding arbitration … that was the “west “ pilots and the “east†pilots … once a combined seniority list is presented to the company which ever union is in the house must honor that agreement …. The parties may change names , but their still the same parties and the agreement has already been signed …
I wonder if the west pilots could force your new union into receivership based on the fact that the only reason you brought about a new union was to escape your legally binding arbitration .
Two parties agreed to binding arbitration … that was the “west “ pilots and the “east†pilots … once a combined seniority list is presented to the company which ever union is in the house must honor that agreement …. The parties may change names , but their still the same parties and the agreement has already been signed …
I wonder if the west pilots could force your new union into receivership based on the fact that the only reason you brought about a new union was to escape your legally binding arbitration .
oldiebutgoody
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For a person that says they hate pilots, you sure spend a lot of time on the pilot threads.
The only lawsuit anyone will be able to file will be a DFR lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, they are almost IMPOSSIBLE to win.
Looks like You're wrong AGAIN!
freedom
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Oh I don’t hate all the pilots , heck I don’t really hate any of the pilots …
I used to admire the east pilots …. The way you took control was just amazing , I give you props for it …
But hey , you crossed my line …. And now as it is apparent to see, your out of control ….
Why you didn’t come to some sort of agreement with the west pilots is beyond me …. After brining in the new union you should have gone hat in hand to the west pilots and attempted to bargain a slightly more favorable seniority list than what was handed down to you .
As I see it the west pilots now have the upper hand … only if they hired an idiot lawyer could they lose , and I don’t think their going to be that cheap .
Your short sightedness is going to come back to bite ya …
Do I agree with the NIC award ? well as I heard it , you east guys wouldn’t negotiate anything fair with the west guys in the start of all this mess …. You played Russian roulette with the arbiter and lost …. Soon you’ll have to pay up …
westcoastflyer
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Isn't every other employee group merging their seniority lists by Date-of-Hire? What makes the pilots so special? I don't see any other groups whining and agonizing over it. Just get it done and move on.
nostradamus
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Your words of wisdom from a former america west employee are not matched by your work ethic.
freedom
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Posted on: Jan 17 2007, 11:23 PM
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well this isn't all bad , i can now offically claim myself to be LAZY on the job .... after we close up the plane and get ready to push , if late bags come , nope ,i'm not opening the bin again , roll them or what ever , i see a bag where the tag has come off and i see the tag nearby , well i'm just going to send the tagless bag to expidite rather than try and retag the bag.... during shift change sometimes we have belt jams because there is no one to watch the belts , no longer will i walk over and clean off the bags ... nope let the system jam ... bags have fallen off some runners cart onto the ground... what bags ? i dont see any bags...
thats right , no more above and beyond for me , i'm just going to my jon and my job alone ...you see this company doesnt realise that it depends on most of us to go above and beyond in order to run smonthly , well no more...
elixir
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I see you didn't take my advice yesterday...pity.
Oh well, carry-on then. Post away about something you know nothing about, as though you do.
It IS funny to watch.
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