US Pilot Labor Thread 7/20-7/26

[EastUS]

There is one thing I will never understand and maybe an easty can help me with this.

"There is one thing...."..???....Don't be so unkind to yourself. Most readers can readilly see that there's actually a vast abundance of things that you apparently don't understand at all...Hint = Life, and doing what's Right isn't all about financial gains or easilly quantifiable rewards for one's self alone.

Not to worry though...If you're Blessed with enough future years to eventually become one of the "old men"...you'll likely gain a better understanding of such concepts along the way...and it ain't a bad thing. 😉

Have a Good One.

 

[nycbusdriver]

This board is too funny. It's just a bunch of over-winded Easties trying to convince themselves that they are right. Keep posting it provides great entertainment. Don't forget to throw the 'sighs' in there and the references to 'Saint Nic.' Hope I don't spend this much time on message boards by the time I'm pushing sixty. Aren't you old men supposed to be playing with all the toys those industry leading contracts afforded you?

There is one thing I will never understand and maybe an easty can help me with this. The majority of you are on the verge of retirement. If you don't medical out then on average you guys have maybe 7 years left. Yet you chose to spend those FINAL 7 years of your life's work toiling under a bottom of the barrel contract with Mesa type work rules while battling a final and binding award in court for WHAT? You aren't going to be around long enough to even come close to recovering what you gave up? Why didn't you take the extra 30-60k per year/ plus more vacation/ liveable work rules/ etc and run? Do you think you'll get anything in the way of decent retro pay now that we're USAPA? Will 6 months in the left seat of a 330 make up for 3-5 more years with a terrible contract?

The senior east pilots have unfairly gotten a reputation for throwing the junior pilots under the bus. The fact that most of us stepped up to the plate to defend our junior pilots over the Nicolau travesty basically puts that to rumor to rest. Even those of us unaffected by doddering George's list know "unfair" when we see it, and we have the wherewithal to use what little power we have left in this industry to right what wrongs we can, when we can.

And yes, you and the "integrity chanters" would never really understand what integrity is really all about.

 

[checksix]

USAPA Update
Thursday, July 24th, 2008

ITEM ONE: Three USAPA Domiciles will conduct domicile union meetings next week. If you haven’t been to a union meeting lately, you may be surprised. The meeting schedule is as follows:

BOS— Monday, July 28th @1100—Logan Hilton (walk through the central garage).

LGA--- Tuesday, July 29th @1000---Shuttle Conference Room

DCA---Wednesday, July 30th @ 1000---Room 260, Concourse (above Delta security)

USAPA domicile BPR Representatives and National Officers will be present at each meeting. In addition there will be several committees attending and many committee briefings. USAPA Attorney, Lee Seham will be at the LGA meeting on Tuesday.

Each of these meetings is being held either in the terminal or within walking distance. We urge every USAPA pilot to participate in their union and take advantage of the opportunity to share your views with your union leadership.

ITEM TWO: Communications would like to take this opportunity to review a valuable Communications tool which is easily found on our website and is capable of expanding our pilot’s knowledge base on important pilot issues. On the right side of the USAPA home page there is a rectangular box labeled "DOMICILE COMMUNICATIONS" which contains a link to each of our domiciles. Your domicile Reps write many excellent updates to their pilots and we believe the information in the updates will significantly raise the level of awareness of all pilots on important issues. Please make the Domicile Updates one of your routine information sources.

Recall that there are a number of ways to stay up-to-date. Your USAPA Communications Committee publishes, on average, 1-2 updates per day. These include email updates, phone updates, Domicile updates, committee updates, a Weekly Wrap-up along with approximately 70 Pilot 4 Pilot Representatives who's mission is to bring you the news face-to-face. The information is available; we urge you to stay informed.

ITEM THREE: The Merger Committee released an Update yesterday that reviews their recent work and upcoming schedule. The Merger Committee Update is posted and has been emailed to all pilots.

ITEM FOUR: The Retirement and Insurance Committee released an Update today. The Merger Committee Update is posted and has been emailed to all pilots.

ITEM FIVE: Pilots are reminded to continue sending ASAP reports anytime their actual fuel burn exceeds planned burn. ASAP reports can also be filed online from the Hub. Remember that West usernames are either a capitol "C" or capitol "P" followed by your old employee number, while East usernames are a capitol "U" followed by your old 6-digit employee number. If you have not yet used the online ASAP submission site, the default password is the last four digits of your SSN.

ITEM SIX: USAPA submitted a Press Release today regarding the continuing issue of Captain's Authority, and the attempts by Management to intimidate those Captains who make a decision to add fuel. The full text of the Press Release may be found under "Press Releases" from either the USAirlinePilots.org homepage or the Members Only Section.

ITEM SEVEN: An open letter to our fellow US Airways employees will be sent tomorrow, July 25th, redressing the misinformation in the latest Company posting regarding Captain's Authority. The full text of the letter will be posted on the USAPA web site upon sending.

 

[nic4us]

The senior east pilots have unfairly gotten a reputation for throwing the junior pilots under the bus. The fact that most of us stepped up to the plate to defend our junior pilots over the Nicolau travesty basically puts that to rumor to rest. Even those of us unaffected by doddering George's list know "unfair" when we see it, and we have the wherewithal to use what little power we have left in this industry to right what wrongs we can, when we can.

And yes, you and the "integrity chanters" would never really understand what integrity is really all about.

busdriver,

had the arbitrated award gone date of hire, I could have lived with that. what I cannot live with is after 20 years continuos service you deciding it is fair that a pilot furloughed at the time of the merger,with less LOS, gets to be senior to me.

George's list is not unfair, unjust or underground. It sits, accepted by the company, on the CEO's desk, awaiting a joint contract. It will take awhile, and you will probably be gone before it happens, but it will be the list used before any usapa dream, one sided, lottery win for furloughs and east f/o's, illegal, disciminating, majority impossed list.

I know quite well what integrity is about, and I respect you for standing by your fellow east pilots. However, taking from the west, does not support your claim to have it.

 

[Eastisleast]

Just testing......alllriiight!

 

[Megasnoop]

From the recent USAPA lawsuit against some of the AWA pilots, you'll recall that Freund simply went after the weakest link in the USAPA lawsuit at that point in time; that basically, it was not in the proper venue. Having won on that point he put the plantiffs back to square one.

Now, look back Freunds statements during the East MEC vs West MEC of last summer:

It would look like once again, Freund simply went for the weakest link of the lawsuit at that point in time; that the arbitrated list was ALPA's bargaining positon that had not yet been presented to the company. Since it had not yet been presented to the company, it was like any other bargaining position and something that the company is not required to accept. It would seem that Freund prefers to conserve the resources of his client by using the minimum effort to get the desired result.

Now we all know that after this court pleading and after Wye River, ALPA National did eventually present the arbitrated award to the company and the company accepted the award as presented. The company agreed that the arbitrated list met the requirements laid out in the TA that was signed by the legal representatives of both pilot groups and the company. No doubt Freund's statements would have been modified had they been made after the list's presentation and acceptance by the company.

This is what your MEC was trying to tell you at the time of the USAPA vote; that it was by working within ALPA that the east had it's best chance of modifying the arbitrated list...while it is a bargaining position and prior to presentation to and acceptance by the company.

Nice try, Jet98, but if Freund was just going after the weakest part of the East MEC's argument, then he should have quit when he was ahead. Most of us out here rolled our eyes at our old MEC's lawsuit anyway. Freund never mentioned that the list would be in stone after presented to the company. He said it was negotiable. And it was negotiable whether ALPO got the heave-ho or not. Now it's irrelevant. Freund may want to conserve his client's resources, but he doesn't conserve his words. U Turn saw something everyone else missed.

I think we have a better chance with ALPO gone on getting rid of the NIC. So I'll take my chances with USAPA.

If the company accepted the list (which they hadn't - they just accepted delivery of the list), then why was ALPO telling both sides and why was Freund telling the West that with ALPO gone, the list might also be gone, too? Freund told that to the West long after the list was presented to the company. 'Splain that one, 98. Then explain why Parker now says everything is negotiable.

(Deleted by Moderator. Check your pm. ) Snoop

 

[Megasnoop]

Scheduling Committee Update
July 23, 2008

West Displacement Bid
Update

The Company has notified the Association that after further review, the number of Captain downgrades has been adjusted to 138, the number of FO displacements lowered to 45 and the number of furloughs remains at 175. The timeline remains the same as well.

The new numbers are as follows:

138 CA Displacements

45 FO Displacements, 8 FO Vacancies

175 Furloughs

Steve Smyser, Chairman
Scheduling Committee

Six, I guess the bad thing for the West is if they took our MEC's LOS deal and we got Buttkovic's contract, no one out West would be furloughed.

Perhaps we could get some west pilots to step up to the plate and volunteer their time and experience for the benefit of all US Airways pilots, especially those based in PHX and LAS.

USAPA will only be as good as we make it. Please don't misunderstand this post; USAPA will be fine with or without your help. Your volunteerism, support and experience, however, will make it a better pilots' union. That's a choice each of us has to make.

You're right about the West not participating now. They are hurting their own furlough and downgrade pilots. I was in the USAPA office last week between training sessions. Our scheduling guys told me they'd like to keep the furloughs to a minimum, but they have no west data, since the West has gone osterich. Even if we get the data from the company later in a grievance, the damage will already be done after the furloughs start. This not participating is as dumb as they not taking our Wye River offer. Snoop

 

[EastUS]

busdriver,

I know quite well what integrity is about, and I respect you for standing by your fellow east pilots. However, taking from the west, does not support your claim to have it.

Leonidas: " I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it."

As for length of service? = I've always been in agreement that such should count for furloughs especially, but ANY notions towards rationally crediting people for what they've done haven't ever been at all popular with the west folks...and here we all are.

 

[ussnark]

what I cannot live with is after 20 years continuos service you deciding it is fair that a pilot furloughed at the time of the merger,with less LOS, gets to be senior to me.

Of course the "nic" list is unfair.

It proposes to be "relative seniority" yet there was nothing "relative" about it. Had both contracts been "normalized" in order to compare apples to apples, the east would have had to bring back over 600 pilots or the west would have had to furlough some 300 pilots. Then, the "relative seniority" meme would have held, and that, pretty much, would have killed your argument.

Here is a different way of viewing the situation.

If you do not understand, try this extreme example of merging of two lists, one airline, say "X", with 100 pilots and the other, "Y", with two. The airlines both fly the same number of hours, total, each month (say 200 hours) with X pilots averaging two hours and Y pilots averaging 100 hours.

Where would you put the two Y pilots? One at #68 and the other at #34? Is that fair? What if they each had worked for 30 years for Y but the average pilot at X worked ten years. Fair or not?

If airline "Y" were to acquire 98 more pilots, even virtually, would the merged list be more or less fair? What if airline "X" were to virtually furlough 98 pilots?

 

[cleardirect]

Moderator:

Could we please not turn this into another USAPA web site. Do we have to look at every update and other junk from the USAPA site here?

They have there own let them use it.

This board is suppose to be a discussion about pilot issues not a coffee shop wall for fliers.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Moderator:

Could we please not turn this into another USAPA web site. Do we have to look at every update and other junk from the USAPA site here?

They have there own let them use it.

This board is suppose to be a discussion about pilot issues not a coffee shop wall for fliers.

I agree. We shouldn't be posting all the USAPA updates, news releases, etc. that are already posted on the USAPA website. Those interested already get those updates emailed directly to them.

We should be able to continue to use appropriate quotes from that source, though, as we have numerous quotes and cuts-and-paste from many other sources being posted here.

 

[luvthe9]

Moderator:

Could we please not turn this into another USAPA web site. Do we have to look at every update and other junk from the USAPA site here?

They have there own let them use it.

This board is suppose to be a discussion about pilot issues not a coffee shop wall for fliers.

How bout Noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! don't come on this site if you don't like it :down:

 

[sharktooth]

This board is suppose to be a discussion about pilot issues not a coffee shop wall for fliers.

Your union has nothing to do with "pilot issues", of course.

Some of the west pilots are interested in what is going on. Since you are not, can you not "click past"?

 

[cleardirect]

How bout Noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! don't come on this site if you don't like it :down:

First my comment was directed to the moderator not you.

Second nice attitude. Ever wonder why there is such a limited number of posters on this board? It is extremely boring having to endure a single opinion. Just keep telling people with a different opinion to leave and you guys will only have each other to attack. How dull would that be?

The moderator and owner of this board would probably prefer more people and opinions than less.

So you might consider inviting people instead of attacking and driving them away.

 

[Barberpole]

Being treated FAIRLY will more than make up for any losses.

Those that continually wish to benefit at the expense of others, i.e. cash the lottery ticket, should be ashamed of themselves, selfish ba$tards! Maybe Kirby should have called it a "lootery" ticket, since that's what it would have amounted to.

Where is the lottery ticket? Have you taken a look at your paystub recently? You guys don't have anything to offer that would even approach the "winning lottery ticket." Flip Flops to Europe for the lowest widebody pay in the industry? Getting stapled to the bottom of the FedEx list would constitute a winning lottery ticket in my book, but slotted in by relative seniority with a marginal airline operating under the worst contract in the bizz is definitely NOT a winning lottery ticket. You are aware that SWA FO's make more than top of scale US Airways Narrowbody captains? Anyone not in the top 517 would be better off quitting and going to Fedex/Ups. Lottery ticket....that's funny. Not a single pilot would have been bumped out of his seat and you cry travesty. as USEast would say .....sigh .....