US Pilot Labor Thread 9/7-14

[prechilill]

I'm tired of hearing about the tyranny of the East majority... Okay so you must like all those special interest Washington/suits/legal eagle/lobbyist throwing millions at our Senate and Congress members, controlling the direction of this country, all while the collective will of the majority of the people in this country is being totally ignored. Yeah... that's morally right! Oh the evil majority.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Megasnoop]

Only problem you have here is that alpa was your union, you agreed to abide by your union's seniority system (just like the new law btw) it was your union until after the merger was completed and 'gasp', it was one single company when you used your greater numbers to try and get out from under the Nic.

WAS a member, even on a committee. I went NON-ALPO after LOA 93, long before the merger along with couple hundred easties. Doesnt change the fact ALPOs rejection of DOH is out of touch with 130 years on US union history. Your point was USAPA didnt have any union DNA. Its ALPO with its conflicting and vague "fair and equitable" that shows a disdain for unionism. But go ahead and make our day. List any other union that uses the ALPO system.

Once again you show your ignorance, tell me how many openings your last bid had?

Same # as West. Zero. Se, Im not ignorant. They got bounced from west back to east. Your saying west pilots should have been able to get furloughed to the east?

and then explain why after the bid an extra 6 east pilots have to hit the streets? Doug doesn't give a damn, usapa requested that 6 pilots from the west be allowed back east with no new openings while allowing seniot both by doh and nick west pilots to be fuloughed

Oh please, Newbie. East pilots were forced to exercise their juniorness back east, per the TA and east contract. If you think the furloughs against the contract, then file a grievance. Didnt your hero Mcalvenny do that? Kind of kicks the heck out of a lawsuit if your former leader thinks its just a grievance.

Parker said it well. He looked at the west yield. No meat on them bones.

What is a "nic west pilot?" Thats a new one.

Usapa won't matter, it will implode.

Maybe, but since your new, Ill say again. NIC or DOH, where I sit on the list with my age, neither is going to make any difference to me for bidding. Senior Intl FO or IRO works for me. Comfy seat in 1st class. On demand movies, sleeping for $$ and great Europe layovers. After the hit I took on the pension, any dissing ALPO takes works for me. So, you think this lawsuit will defy every other DFR out there in the past 50 years and get resolved before theres another De-cert drive?

Dfr on alpa is gone as there is a 6 month provision. Jail time? you bet, once a judge makes a decision and you refuse to comply, you are in contempt , and yes if usapa leadership refuses the judgement they will go to jail. As for the "two Parties" you speak of east and west pilots, not usapa or alpa, yes let that sink in, this was a contract between east and west pilots. think of it this way, if you give someone power of attorney and they buy...Please read the lawsuit, every east pilot is being personally sued for breached contract.

Oh come on. No union can tell a company what to do. And no judge is going to tell a union how to negotiate. Suing LCC? Maybe you can get somewhere with them. Your power of attorny things a little lame. Why not sue ALPO? There the ones who stalled the NIC implemented. Anything to save the mothership. snooper

 

[tazz]

This was entertaining watching all you jail house lawyers throwing big words and former cases back and forth. Now it's just plain boring becaues most of you haven't a clue what you're saying.

The bottom line to this old farm boy is that the east played their hand and now the west is playing theirs. The judge will decide. It is well worth my $1,000 to allow the west's hand to be played.

 

[TWAFlyer]

This was entertaining watching all you jail house lawyers throwing big words and former cases back and forth. Now it's just plain boring becaues most of you haven't a clue what you're saying.

The bottom line to this old farm boy is that the east played their hand and now the west is playing theirs. The judge will decide. It is well worth my $1,000 to allow the west's hand to be played.

Tazz,

You are correct. While the West MEC was trying to deal with the unethical behavior from both the East pilots and company, the East group has provided daily evidence as to the true purpose of USAPA.

That effort continued unfettered, until last week. Now the legal system will sort it out.

It's about time.

 

[EastUS]

.....wanting something which wasn't theirs to begin with.

..we will fight for what is ours and what we believe in and not let you steal anything that we have worked so hard for.....

We will fight you greedy....we will fight for what is ours and what we believe in and not let you steal anything that we have worked so hard for

One day you may figure out there are two sides to consider instead of just yours.

...you heathens..

The above's about the finest brief study in utter hypocrisy possible.

Oops..I see you edited out the "you heathens"..I guess even you figured that to be a wee bit over-the-top

"...because he best represents one underlying principle that many of us on the west stand for" Umm..All ears here. Exactly what IS this grand, underlying "principle" out there? 🙄

"One day you may figure out there are two sides to consider instead of just yours." OK..Did YOU really say that with any semblance of a straight face?

A neverending source of amusement...and clinical fascination as well...

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

We will fight you greedy USAPA tyrants out east to the very end, we will fight for what is ours and what we believe in and not let you steal anything that we have worked so hard for at America West.

Right now you are enjoying exactly what is your, America West. Thats the real kicker and what sticks in your craw, you just won't admit it. You are the one trying to hop the fence and steal what somebody else worked for.

What a delusional world you have painted for yourself. Being such an awesome airline, you would have thought an industry leading contract would have been gained somewhere along the way in 20+ years. Funny, ALPA couldn't provide you that with their great expertise and trade unionism and the awesome power of America West that you previously enjoyed and still do.

 

[EastUS]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
- Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin Franklin: "Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight." "At 20 years of age the will reigns, at 30 the wit, at 40 the judgment." "Educate your children to self-control, to the habit of holding passion and prejudice and evil tendencies subject to an upright and reasoning will, and you have done much to abolish misery from their future and crimes from society." 😉

King Leonidas, shortly before his death in battle at Thermopylae, to Xerxes: "If you knew what is good in life, you would refrain from wishng for foreign things."
"Leonidas" of AWA...incessently whining and raging over the nic: "I want the captain seat..and, most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it!"

Westpuslot puts it well: "Right now you are enjoying exactly what is yours, America West. Thats the real kicker and what sticks in your craw, you just won't admit it. You are the one trying to hop the fence and steal what somebody else worked for."

Benjamin Franklin: "He is ill clothed that is bare of virtue."

Prechilled: "We will fight you greedy USAPA tyrants out east to the very end, we will fight for what is ours .." etc, ad naseum=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huxv6Etraf0

 

[luvthe9]

: We will fight you greedy USAPA tyrants out east to the very end, we will fight for what is ours and what we believe in and not let you steal anything that we have worked so hard for at America West. And we will all do this until the last west pilot is standing. If you succeed in destroying our careers out west because of your superior numbers, remember one thing- your numerical superiority is temporary-- we will return all favors you heathens bestow on us. .

Just a little info, nothing on the East is YOURS, and nobody on the East wants to take away anything from you. Your careers are safe we want nothing to do with the West. YOU are the greedy ones!!!!

 

[ussnark]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin Franklin

Ben never made either statement.

 

[EastUS]

Ben never made either statement.

In fairness; Those have been attributed to Mr Franklin.

 

[machtuck]

A quick observation, then I'm out for awhile: the "feeding frenzy" being exhibited by the usual west suspects is just too much to listen to. I'm done talking to them at all.

1) You cannot have something stolen from you if it was never yours to begin with.

2) This is truly the hail-mary for the west to "steal" via the NIC what rightfully is not (and never was) theirs.

If they simply want to be left with "their stuff" we'd be hearing about 30 year fences....thats not what I hear...in fact, NO fences is what I hear.

Says it all for me.

See ya in court.

Over and out.

 

[ussnark]

In fairness; Those have been attributed to Mr Franklin.

I want the truth, not truthiness 🙂

I believe the statements are actually attributed to an LA Times editorial sometime in the 1990's, possibly Stephen King's, "The Stand", originally published in 1978 or the re-write in 1990.

The origin of the word "lunch" is from the early 1800's, definitely after the passing of Mr. Franklin.

Perhaps I should have said, the statements have been attributed to Mr. Franklin in error.

Now, watch this drive........

 

[Tiger 1050]

Just a little info, nothing on the East is YOURS, and nobody on the East wants to take away anything from you. Your careers are safe we want nothing to do with the West. YOU are the greedy ones!!!!

I wish it were that easy. It would prove to be much more convenient and a lot less angry, but it is not so.

The day this merger took place it changed our cost structure on the AWA side. We took on the economics of the east. Now we find that the original set-up out west will not work with this new economic burden. Of course "burden" should be read as higher cost structure. Please do not take that as a personal attack! So Parker and his cronies will run to the higher yield markets to try and off-set some of these additional costs. When he does this he will pull down what was once a satisfactorily performing market deeming it unsuccessful and moving the assets to "better performing" markets. Review PSA. So you now can see that it can never be as simple as "You have your flying and I'll keep mine." Unless you can change the hands of time and take us back to the days previous then we'll have to continue to fight for what we believe is... "Fair."

P.S. Sorry if this post seem disjointed. My 1yr old daughter keeps demanding attention... Of course I feel obligated and all... Probably because she has me wrapped around her little finger! Man I'm screwed!!!

 

[EastUS]

I want the truth, not truthiness 🙂

I believe the statements are actually attributed to an LA Times editorial sometime in the 1990's, possibly Stephen Kings, "The Stand", originally published in 1978 or the re-write in 1990.

The origin of the word "lunch" is from the early 1800's, definitely after the passing of Mr. Franklin.

Cue up Jack N./A Few Good Men: 'You can't handle the truth!!" Seriously though sir, I don't know the original source myself, but see that's it's been attributed to Mr. franklin, via the web at least, hence "attributed". I'd assume it was gleaned from the net by Prechilled...or from The Stand/whatever. It does have a similar flavor to the generic and popular: "The lion may lie down with the lamb, but the lamb's not going to get much sleep."...."well armed" or not 😉

 

[Sir Lurk-A-Lot]

Ok so I am listening to both sides of the argument and I understand the thought process behind the "you keep what is yours and I'll keep what is mine" mentality.

My question is what does your group do with new flying? Beijing and Tel Aviv (when and if they start flying) are routes that exist with the help of the synergy of a merged national network. What is the fair way to staff such growth? Especially since not one side "owned" that flying before the merger.

Also from reading the complaint filed I don't understand why USAPA, who is such a big proponent of trade unionism and seniority, has not made any issue with the fact that senior pilots are furloughed before new hires. So which is it in the unions view? Two separate pilot groups or common carrier status as the NMB has declared? I know that you all still operate off of two seniority lists but the principle of letting some of the "5200 mainline US Airways pilots" that USAPA represents hit the streets out of seniority order without so much as a fight seems like a failure.