US Pilot Labor Thread 9/7-14

[tazz]

Ussnark, The impartial judge will decide who is right and who is wrong. But!!!! I feel compelled to caution you and your brethren out east... You cannot circumvent the ruling this time around.

Tiger, you're absolutely right but, Lord knows they'll try.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

It is my understanding that there are new-hire east pilots (post merger after all East recalls) which will not be affected by the current furlough numbers.

Your understanding is not correct.

There will be no post-merger new-hire pilot on the east property when the current furlough is complete.

That is to say, all new-hires on the east side are being furloughed.

😛h34r:

 

[Tiger 1050]

Tiger, you're absolutely right but, Lord knows they'll try.

I rest fully assured that they will friend...

 

[ALPO NO MO]

That answer is simple. It was originally observed by Sir Lurk-A-Lot. The current furloughs affect west pilots which were on the active seniority list prior to the "merger" announcement. It is my understanding that there are new-hire east pilots (post merger after all East recalls) which will not be affected by the current furlough numbers. Was there not supposed to be a "new hire" list created for those who were not on the East or West certified lists?

What am I missing here?? :blink:

You believe that there would have been a contract now if we'd stayed alpa? NO, there would still be no contract with the nic because most of us in the East would not have voted for it. No contract, no nic. No contact= no merged list. No merged list = the situation we find ourselves in now.
At this point, usapa or whomever trots out a contract, most of us will not vote in a contract that makes someone with 23 years invested in a career, give it up to person who has 8 years.

 

[EastUS]

At this point, usapa or whomever trots out a contract, most of us will not vote in a contract that makes someone with 23 years invested in a career, give it up to person who has 8 years.

100% agreed. That seems such an obvious precept for even the most basic notions of human decency to me.....and apparently an overwhelming number of the east pilot group as well.

 

[Tiger 1050]

You believe that there would have been a contract now if we'd stayed alpa? NO, there would still be no contract with the nic because most of us in the East would not have voted for it. No contract, no nic. No contact= no merged list. No merged list = the situation we find ourselves in now.
At this point, usapa or whomever trots out a contract, most of us will not vote in a contract that makes someone with 23 years invested in a career, give it up to person who has 8 years.

I'll be the first to admit that I can be wrong but, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this situation. I believe that the very point you are making is what this lawsuit is attempting, and easily so, to illustrate. The east pilots, no matter their agent, cannot enter into a contract (meaning agreement with the west to arbitrate) and then simply try to ignore the outcome because the findings were unfavorable to them. But we'll have to see what Her Honor has to say about it...

 

[ussnark]

No matter your self-explanation, the issue will be heard in Federal Court. Once again you'll have your agent present your case as we will have our agent argue for us. The impartial judge will decide who is right and who is wrong. But!!!! I feel compelled to caution you and your brethren out east... You cannot circumvent the ruling this time around.

Just my understanding to someone who does not have any facts, just emotion.

As I have said, numerous times, let the legal games begin.

 

[TWAFlyer]

Your understanding is not correct.

There will be no post-merger new-hire pilot on the east property when the current furlough is complete.

That is to say, all new-hires on the east side are being furloughed.

😛h34r:

Thank you for the clarification.

Am I correct that there are East pilots who were recalled from furlough that will retain their jobs, while those West pilots that were working at the time of the "merger announcement" will be furloughed??

 

[fr8tmastr]

test

 

[nycbusdriver]

Thank you for the clarification.

Am I correct that there are East pilots who were recalled from furlough that will retain their jobs, while those West pilots that were working at the time of the "merger announcement" will be furloughed??

Yes. That is correct. It is the result of larger cuts on the west side than on the east side, and the company's position that, absent a single contract and the subsequent merged seniority list, the cuts are being made to the two active lists based on where the flying is being abandoned.

 

[ussnark]

The east pilots, no matter their agent, cannot enter into a contract (meaning agreement with the west to arbitrate) and then simply try to ignore the outcome because the findings were unfavorable to them. But we'll have to see what Her Honor has to say about it...

If that were, indeed, true, then the west pilots are wasting their dollars.

 

[Tiger 1050]

If that were, indeed, true, then the west pilots are wasting their dollars.

I do not believe our dollars are being wasted! You see, the east has forced us to this position. It is not unlike two older siblings ganging up on a smaller weaker sibling. We are simply asking mom, in this case, to sort it out. A chance for me and my fellow pilots out west to have our voice heard in a venue that carries the weight of a federal court ruling is money well spent! No matter how you want to look at this it is now in the hands of the court. The judge will rule and that will be that.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

I'll be the first to admit that I can be wrong but, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this situation. I believe that the very point you are making is what this lawsuit is attempting, and easily so, to illustrate. The east pilots, no matter their agent, cannot enter into a contract (meaning agreement with the west to arbitrate) and then simply try to ignore the outcome because the findings were unfavorable to them. But we'll have to see what Her Honor has to say about it...

Nope, just saying that even a joint contract had been agreed to under alpa, you can't make people vote to aprove it. What possible benefit would it have for me to vote yes on a contract which puts me at a great disavantage for what is left of my career?

 

[fodase]

Nope, just saying that even a joint contract had been agreed to under alpa, you can't make people vote to aprove it. What possible benefit would it have for me to vote yes on a contract which puts me at a great disavantage for what is left of my career?

That's why the west is asking the Judge for all furloughs to be done via the Nic. and for Nic, to be the master seniority list effective immediately, that way wether or not you vote for a deal the Nic. is in place. Look you admit that you will not honor the TA, your alpa mec also admitted it, as well as usapa's founding members. All we are asking the judge to do is to say wether or not the TA is enforceable, Nic. just happens to be part of it.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Nope, just saying that even a joint contract had been agreed to under alpa, you can't make people vote to aprove it.

Fair enough. However I wonder what the general attitude would be if you knew for sure that the nic would be implemented no matter how one votes. If, and that's a big if, the judge decides to implement the nic no discussion on it what-so-ever how would you proceed.

What possible benefit would it have for me to vote yes on a contract which puts me at a great disavantage for what is left of my career?

I agree there would be little if any benefit for you. Although I do not know what your personal circumstances are... But this is my point above. What if the nic were to be implemented. Period. What if you had zero recourse? How would you proceed?

The judge can throw nic out (not likely at all), implement the nic having seen USAPA's underhanded tactics, or something in between... We'll just have to see.