US Pilot Thread for Week 9/21-9/28

[Tiger 1050]

You left out the part about MDA not being a seperate certificate...it was USAirways' certificate.
You left out that the training, manuals, paychecks, scheduling, and FA's were all USAirways..

(important details)

Hard to call you "off the property" when you're not "off the property."

(those pesky details)

Since we are the same certificate does that make us one seniority list? ...East and west I mean...

Could the "not furloughed" pilots at MDA bid equipment other than what MDA used? e.g. Could a pilot bid over to say the AB or 737? That right there I think would answer the question. But hey I wasn't there...

 

[Phoenix]

Since we're on the subject of MDA, here is a couple of questions that I don't recall the answer for:

1) As pilots were furloughed from mainline, where would they go at MDA? ...

When pilots returned from furlough to MDA positions ALPA patted itself on the back for securing recalls to mainline and welcomed the pilots back to mainline.

When an MDA pilot was elected to an ALPA officer position ALPA again acknowledged that MDA was mainline.

Nic was flawed, by design or accident.

Regardless, the various ways in which MDA was treated does not define wether they were mainline or not. Their status as mainline or not is determined by legal instruments. Then based upon their legal status, it will disclose the legitimacy of the way the company and the mighty ALPA conducted their affairs relative to the MDA pilots.

The more folks point to ways in which the MDA pilots were handled contrary to a mainline pilot only demonstrates the harm they were subjected to (and their consequent entitlement to remedy), if they are successful in demonstrating that they were legally in fact mainline pilots, as ALPA and the company affirmed a couple times or more.

 

[Tiger 1050]

The LOS that the FUR mainline pilots had there should not have been ignored by NIC.

Honestly I do not have a problem with that. Any speculation as to why Nic did not take that into account?

 

[machtuck]

Honestly I do not have a problem with that. Any speculation as to why Nic did not take that into account?

Yes..(and I am capable of having a rational conversation...)

The company took the position that MDA was some sort of "separate entity"...although they didn't even bother to get it a certificate of it's own...or training, payroll, sked..nothing...

USAirways ALPA and ALPA National both caved to this theory as well. You have to remember, this was about 10 months after 9/11...so the industry was in the %#*tter...
I wanted to add, MDA didn't "start up until almost a year after all the FUR from mainline...by then, many who found jobs had signed training notes and were stuck where they were...AND...much discussion about "was it mainline or not?" was out there..

I couldn't go because I found a job after awhile, and when I got the call, I was obligated by a note...AND the obvious issue of "mainline or not"....

Those guys got F'd...plain and simple, by the company, ALPA National. AND USAirways MEC...

It's actually much more complicated than that...there was "control" issues when "it" was "sold" to Republic for $125 Million....

You get the idea.

 

[Phoenix]

Honestly I do not have a problem with that. Any speculation as to why Nic did not take that into account?

MDA pilots existed all the way to the bottom of the whole USAir seniority. To give credit to the last MDA pilot, it would be necessary to give credit to all pilots senior (on voluntary furlough or not) or one is then guilty of reordering the seniority list. ALPA allowed the company to sell them a bill of goods that ALPA couldn't afford.

 

[machtuck]

Since we are the same certificate does that make us one seniority list? ...East and west I mean...

Could the "not furloughed" pilots at MDA bid equipment other than what MDA used? e.g. Could a pilot bid over to say the AB or 737? That right there I think would answer the question. But hey I wasn't there...

No...seperate operations until a new CBA is struck.

No...MDA pilots could only fly EMB 170's....

PS: Phoenix , your recollections are excellent.

This is a slam dunk lawsuit..someday.

 

[cleardirect]

Piney, the State Court action got tossed today without a hearing. No juristiction. Driving down the price of the stock. But hey, what do they care? snooper

Snoop,

Could you back up your claim?

According to the court records nothing on the docket today.

More fantasy from the east?

You will need to explain why a court case being dropped would cause the stock price to go DOWN.

You might want to check the stock price after USAPA’s ill-advised USA Today ad about the fuel. How did that effect the stock price?

 

[machtuck]

For those of you who asked:

The MDA issue is just another of the myriad of reasons ALPA had to go from the USAirways pilot group. You can believe that or not...irrelevent.

Pensions sold off, closed door deals..concessions...even I don't know them all.

But there are guys who do....

You on the west obviously believe it's all about this merger...

History will prove you wrong.

Do some independent homework...you'll be surprised what you find.

 

[luvthe9]

A West Pilot is circulating a form for the West Pilots to use that will require any East Pilot to read and sign if that East Pilot wishs to ride on their jump seats.

This paper informs the East Pilot that the West Crew is not happy about taking an East Pilot on his jump seat, but as a professional, he will do it provided the East Pilot first sign this paper.

This paper stipulates that you will not talk, nor read nor use any kind of electrical device including computers, MP 3 Player, IPOD, etc. while occupying his jumpseat. If you do sign this paper and he does allow you to ride and you do turn on an electrical device, he will land at the nearest suitable airport to put you off.

Once you sign this paper, he will make a copy and hand it to the PHX Chief Pilot's office.

I understand that the PHL Chief Pilot's office is aware of this paper and they cannot do anything about it.

For those that may ride on a West jump seat, you need to be aware that this is what you may be faced with.

IS THIS REALLY GOING ON, DOES ANYBODY HAVE A COPY OF THIS LETTER, ARE ALL WEST PILOTS DOING THIS. UNBELIEVEABLE IF TRUE A NEW LOW HAS BEEN SET.

 

[nycbusdriver]

A West Pilot is circulating a form for the West Pilots to use that will require any East Pilot to read and sign if that East Pilot wishs to ride on their jump seats.

This paper informs the East Pilot that the West Crew is not happy about taking an East Pilot on his jump seat, but as a professional, he will do it provided the East Pilot first sign this paper.

This paper stipulates that you will not talk, nor read nor use any kind of electrical device including computers, MP 3 Player, IPOD, etc. while occupying his jumpseat. If you do sign this paper and he does allow you to ride and you do turn on an electrical device, he will land at the nearest suitable airport to put you off.

Once you sign this paper, he will make a copy and hand it to the PHX Chief Pilot's office.

I understand that the PHL Chief Pilot's office is aware of this paper and they cannot do anything about it.

For those that may ride on a West jump seat, you need to be aware that this is what you may be faced with.

IS THIS REALLY GOING ON, DOES ANYBODY HAVE A COPY OF THIS LETTER, ARE ALL WEST PILOTS DOING THIS. UNBELIEVEABLE IF TRUE A NEW LOW HAS BEEN SET.

I would love the opportunity to do that. I would sign the paper and pull out a calculator about 30 seconds out of 10,000 feet. Then, watch the captain explain to ATC that he/she has to return to the field and do an overweight landing.

Then, the fun really begins while he tried to explain to the CP why he/she felt that a calculator was sufficient reason for all of his/her actions. Let's see just how far that singed piece of paper get him/her.

Then, maybe we can get the FAA involved for some neato certificate action.

And the press! Let's not forget the press!

What fun these westies are!

 

[machtuck]

Its true...I've seen a copy of the letter. A guy I flew with had it..it was a blank one, and it's being sent to the JS committee.

( I wonder how the CP offices will feel after some guy turns on an mp3 player and the west CA lands in Hungry Horse Montana)

 

[Res Judicata]

Its true...I've seen a copy of the letter. A guy I flew with had it..it was a blank one, and it's being sent to the JS committee.

What's the big deal? It's just "Captains Authority" isn't it? You know, the very same authority that a group of idiots defended so ham handedly in USA Today. Captains Authority is the Sacred Cow...remember? The electronics issue arose because of an incident where an Eastie was filming the crew during a SID below 10,000ft. The FO caught him and he, (eastie) lied about it and refused to erase it. Again, a situation that the east created.



When is Captains Authority the immovable bottom line and when is it something to be thrown away and sued over? Just ask your sophomoric leaders I guess. Just another case of USAPAs selective memory and only acknowledging rules that suit them when and where they please. I can't believe how many Easties are willing to follow such obvious rank amateur idiots that make up their "union" as they go along. BTW, good luck on firing the west pilots. I guess that's considered being a "good union pilot".

 

[machtuck]

The firings continue to proceed through the process. As to the "authority'...I like NYC's idea, pull out a calculator to add up your logbook at 10,001' and watch that captains ticket go right out the window when the FAA is done with him.

That will be hilarious....I'm sorely tempted to do it.

 

[cleardirect]

The firings continue to proceed through the process. As to the "authority'...I like NYC's idea, pull out a calculator to add up your logbook at 10,001' and watch that captains ticket go right out the window when the FAA is done with him.

That will be hilarious....I'm sorely tempted to do it.

Well Tuck once again you prove what an incredibly selfish person you are. Giddy over the prospect of a fellow pilot having FAA enforcement, termination and happy to help with that.

Where sir did you learn unionism? From your posts I would say that you never did.

I find it disgusting that you think it would be “hilariousâ€￾ to be the cause for someone’s career to end.

If you are willing to sabotage a fellow pilots for a single spot on the list. The captains you fly with must be very very careful. You obviously are a snake that would throw anyone under the bus for your own advancement.

 

[HonuFly]

The firings continue to proceed through the process. As to the "authority'...I like NYC's idea, pull out a calculator to add up your logbook at 10,001' and watch that captains ticket go right out the window when the FAA is done with him.

That will be hilarious....I'm sorely tempted to do it.

That is exactly why I do not take easties in the jumpseat, nor most other AWA guys.
I eliminate the problem before it starts.
And yes I am a commuter.
HF