US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[autofixer]

And the West should hope and pray that we get our pensions back, as many of us Easties would most likely leave ASAP. Phoof! Problem solved!

 

[beachboy]

I usually don't read all this "nic" disaster diatribe but that is very true. Be a moot point if the pensions came back EJECT!

 

[SparrowHawk]

And the West should hope and pray that we get our pensions back, as many of us Easties would most likely leave ASAP. Phoof! Problem solved!

Probably a lot of truth in this statement. Not sure but I think we're along way from anybody getting a check.

 

[Ralph]

This is a pilot issue. Some of you seem to have trouble understanding that threads about pilot issues may only be started by moderators. This thread will be merged into the pilot thread. Time off will be given.

 

[cleardirect]

And the West should hope and pray that we get our pensions back, as many of us Easties would most likely leave ASAP. Phoof! Problem solved!

Everyone should take the time to read the documents filed as it is a big deal for the east pilots.

First this has nothing to do with the west pilots, HP-FA is correct it is paid for by east assessments.

Second read the complaint. The law suit is only asking for an investigation of the fund not asking or forcing the PBGC to restore it. According to the PBGC they would have to investigate then find $510 million in fraud before the first penny goes to the pilots. So let's say the PBGC mangaes to find AND collect $550 million from someone. that is $40 million to be distributed among all the people. That is not going to restore the pension therefore no one is going to leave early. Not for an extra $10,000 a year.

What have all of the east pilots said you are all happy on LOA 93 wages and don't need the $30,000 a new contract would bring. You all should read the documents and understand what you are spending money on and the results being asked for. The complaint does not ask the court to restore the pension read the complaint page 12-13. It is available on the usapa web site.

This is what the PBGC had to say:

And even if an unusual and unexpected fiduciary breach recovery led PBGC to redo its
valuation and allocation in this case,56 the pilots’ statutory benefits could increase only if the
recovery for such a breach exceeded half a billion dollars. This is because there are assets in the
Plan sufficient to pay all benefits through statutory priority category 3, but not through priority
category 4 (PBGC-guaranteed benefits).57 Thus, if PBGC (or a “special trusteeâ€￾) recovered any
additional assets, they would go first to PBGC to help offset the guaranteed benefits in priority
category 4 that PBGC is already paying. Participants could benefit from that recovery only if the
monies were sufficient to pay all priority category 4 benefits and some or all of the benefits in
priority category 5. That would require recovery of more than $510 million. Id. at ¶ 15. Since
that is unimaginable under any scenario, there is no harm to USAPA based on its allegations.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Have you seen the Alaska contract? If any of you vote yes for any contract with something less than either of these 2 you are really selling out.

If the west had sufficient MIGS to pull it off, they'd ratify LOA 93 as the new joint contract just to get Nicolau operational.

 

[cleardirect]

If the west had sufficient MIGS to pull it off, they'd ratify LOA 93 as the new joint contract just to get Nicolau operational.

Wrong! Again!

 

[Poug Darker]

Pension is not coming back. Any money recovered goes to bolster the existing PBGC monies.
You might get a little bit more in your PBGC check, but that's it - and even that is a big 'maybe'.

I agree that the money being spent on the investigation could (and probably will) turn out to be fruitless.
But, it would give many closure to finally ascertain what actually happened to the pension money.
The assessment is not open-ended, there will be another vote after 12 months of assessments.

 

[cleardirect]

Pension is not coming back. Any money recovered goes to bolster the existing PBGC monies.
You might get a little bit more in your PBGC check, but that's it - and even that is a big 'maybe'.

I agree that the money being spent on the investigation could (and probably will) turn out to be fruitless.
But, it would give many closure to finally ascertain what actually happened to the pension money.
The assessment is not open-ended, there will be another vote after 12 months of assessments.

I agree so the investigation does have some value. Just not what most people think it was designed to do.

 

[Metroyet]

And the West should hope and pray that we get our pensions back, as many of us Easties would most likely leave ASAP. Phoof! Problem solved!

Yet another lawsuit an eastie totally misunderstands. You're not going to get your pension back. That isn't what this lawsuit is about. Get educated and get your expectations in line.

 

[OTTER574]

If the west had sufficient MIGS to pull it off, they'd ratify LOA 93 as the new joint contract just to get Nicolau operational.

Not to pop your bubble. Not in a million years will west pilots ever vote in loa93.

A lot of things come to mind that can move this thing forward but a watered down NIC or loa93 is a complete nonstarter.

 

[exB717Flyer]

If the west had sufficient MIGS to pull it off, they'd ratify LOA 93 as the new joint contract just to get Nicolau operational.

This is funny. Easties are professing to know a CBA with the Nic list will never be voted in and now one professes to know how the West would vote. My challenge is simple: PROVE IT!

 

[luvn737s]

If the west had sufficient MIGS to pull it off, they'd ratify LOA 93 as the new joint contract just to get Nicolau operational.

You can only vote on what the NC presents. How would the RC4/USAPA come up with a ta that's less than Kirby? History notwithstanding.

What could be presented is a sizable improvement (Kirby) from which to negotiate further gains.

I wouldn't be surprised, if the 9th sends USAPA a "regret to inform you" letter, the company would pick an arbitrary date (maybe 6 months out) that they will unilaterally impose the Kirby proposal (in areas that are equal or better than status quo) and Nicolau list. The east pilots would never allow USAPA to pull food out of their mouths and would pressure Cleary to not pursue action against the company.

Once the joint contract (in effect a joint LOA) is in place, USAPA can continue negotiations and utilize DOH going forward. Here's an acronym (gotta have one of those)

Operation PLUMBER - Pilot List Unification-Monetary/ Benefit Enhancement Resolution

 

[700UW]

Under the RLA the company cannot impose a CBA on workers, only after the Section 6 is exhausted or during bankruptcy after Section 1113 is done.

 

[EastUS]

"..and use DOH going forward"???

DOH is THEN an acceptable basis for seniority?....Umm....and only after the nic's absurdly enhanced the west's "seniority" of course?....by completely denying, attacking and striving to fully eradicate the validity of any such consideration?

Truly...Words just fail me here...........