US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

This is unbelievable. How can you seriously take this position if you even began to read the 9th. You ought to clerk for Wake.

You mean Wake doesn't clerk for him? :blink:

 

[Ames]

I'd respond to this, but it doesn't even make sense. Are you asking a question, making a statement, or drooling on your keyboard?

Funny to hear AWA guys talk about substandard contracts. If anybody knows about that subject, they do.

I'll write s l o w l y for you. If, as you say, Parker can use the agreements passed on from alpa (such as the Nic) for toilet paper....

He should be able to trash your contract.. You are already paid a substandard wage via LOA93. If Parker can wipe his #$% with the Nic then he should be able to do the same with your contract. Perhaps he will pay you $45/hour and give you 8 days/month off.

Do you follow that logic or is it too much for you?

 

[Black Swan]

Tiger,

The West is no longer a represented seperate group, to make negotiations possible. If usapa gets any contract ratified that does not contain the Nic it does not have to be AOL that sues. So usapa is under threat of litigation unless they pass the Nic, simple as that. So is the company by the way.

But the good new for you is the east would have to recall you before hiring off the street, so you might be able to take advantage of the east retirements that most West pilots will be unable to. Seperate ops might get you up the ladder over there faster than on the West side, but remember that fence is temporary, and in the end your Nic seniority will rule the day.

In any event, hope we get you back soon, and I suspect we will, but the first opening will likely be on the east.

You can sue. Just make sure you can convince someone that you deserve to jump the line.Wake made sure the jury didn't hear the DOH history of the pilots and the company in general. Next time,it will be out there. Going to be really funny to hear you explaining how you need to jump years over someone else.And you are damaged if you don't get your way. You are going to be exposed for exactly what you really are. A bunch of greedy opportunists. I say odds on you lose, again. USAPA is always going to be under threat of litigation by the West. Next time you are going to pick up the tab. You guys, if you can get the money to pay the first attempt, will try again. And again.

 

[cleardirect]

Jim

problem with that scenerio I those on the bottom of the east list are not at top of scale. Still have a number of years before reaching that. Thanks to alpa

Wow. Now it is ALPA's fault that a pilot did not reach top of scale yet. Do they also cause global warming and the oil spill?

 

[Ames]

Welcome to reality, big boy. Fairness is a very relative thing. Putting guys hired in 2005 senior to guys hired in 1988 is MORE unfair.

There, I said it.

Back at ya!

If you don't like the reality of this screwed up industry, I suggest you run from it like hell!

I think I'll stick around awhile. The west is still a GREAT place to work. We like each other over here. I also believe that the Nic is here to stay, as Parker publicly accepted it. He''s probably at home now trying to figure out how to tell you guys this and calculating the cost of another childish meltdown. He's a numbers guy after all. He'll work it out.

 

[Ames]

This is absolutely not true. The seniority agreement could be changed tomorrow. Negotiated.

No it can't. Why don't you try telling that to the Delta/Northwest pilots. Not happy with your integration? Just negotiate a new one. 🙂

 

[Black Swan]

Very good. So they didn't say that ignoring the Nic was OK, Good to see you catching on.

Jim

I think he caught on. It just isn't what you think it is.

 

[Ames]

I've got just one thing to say about MY career: GEAR UP!

Yeah, and your first officers get to say that on the legs they fly, too.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is unbelievable. How can you seriously take this position if you even began to read the 9th. You ought to clerk for Wake.

Oh, I read the judgement - probably before you did. since I read it Friday afternoon eastern time I do have an advantage. With no dog in this fight, other than what I consider as fair, I can read it to see what it actually says, not to see if I can twist it to somehow say what I want it to say. You're stuck with the latter. You're right about one thing - the 9th didn't rule that the pilots would get a 50% pay raise any more than they ruled USAPA is free to use a DOH list.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim

problem with that scenerio I those on the bottom of the east list are not at top of scale. Still have a number of years before reaching that. Thanks to alpa

Correct, but a lot more East pilots are at top of scale than West pilots. Plus there a lot more of the East pilots on medical than West pilots. Plus the East 757/767/33x payscales are higher. More at top of scale, a significant percentage making more, plus lower average productivity due to medical disability equals higher cost.

Jim

 

[Mr Furlough]

Nic's the whole problem. Ya gotta let it go! At first it was categorized as being the "lottery ticket you'll never cash in" now fast forward to the 9nths decision. Look, nic's never ever going to happen. Yet before us is an opportunity to do better than nicolau did. And who better than the people whom do the job, understand the relevance of years of service, and the mandatory end of our careers. You have to go at 65-all of us. The mass leap frogging we see with nic creates a non obtainable situation for our west pilots...it's just not going to happen.

The best thing we can all do now is to take advantage of this do-over. Lets get this seniority integration to a place that we can all live with. That's the path that will allow all of us to be successful. Here's to getting this thing done in a professional and positive manner for all.

 

[nic4us]

And if we go date of hire, how is that damaging when the rest of the airline merged that way.Everybody else. How can it be damaging when 3/4 of the pilots on the property merged that way? Then try and tell a judge and jury how a AWA new hire going on top of Jeo Monda 17 yrs. of uninterrupted service is not damage to him. Big point, and you are missing it. The key to your first deal was Wake. How many crackpot judges with no smarts on RLA can one run into in one lifetime? Your damage is an outlier. It is just that- YOUR damage. Imagined. You just are so greedy you think you can go on top of another guy with yrs. of service beyond yours. Good luck explaining that successfully to anyone other than Wake and a jury that has its' hand tied. Try telling that to the guy on the street, that you want to leapfrog over some guy who was hired when you were in grade school.

I told you you would not like what the 9th actually just said.

They said, in layman's terms, you do not have to use the Nic, but if you use anything less and get it passed you are going to get sued and lose. Unless of course you use something the West finds tolerable enough to finally throw up our hands and quit suing you. But here is the fact, you are not getting DOH, not DOH with C&Rs, not modified DOH on LOS, nor any other unilaterally imposed DOH scheme. Anything less than the Nic and you get sued and lose.

The two liberal judges are trying to further mediate the dispute. They are giving you room to do the right thing and simply use the Nic or make other compromises. The conservative judge called BS, said you are guilty and should have to pay for the harm already inflicted.

But to directly answere your question, it does not matter how the rest of the airline merged, anything less than the Nic harms the West. We do not have to tell a judge and jury about Joe Monda, we told an arbitrator about Joe, and the arbitrator decided that Joe benefitted immensly by this merger as it almost instantly moved him from his bottom about to be furloughed position, to a point with some security and furlough protection with hundreds of pilots below him. Just did not give him my captain seat, so it was not good enough for usapa.

Crackpot judges? Hand tied juries? Senile arbitrators? Greedy west pilots? Here is the news flash Swan. The key to our first deal and any future deal was not Wake or Nicolau or some other supposedly biased unfair east bogey man. All we ever needed or will ever need in the future is an impartial decision. The key is you are in the wrong, you hold the moral low ground, you have rationalized a course of action that has compromised your integrity.

Get it yet?

INTEGRITY MATTERS

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Pul eeeze! Give it a rest already.

Nic is DONE! Just like we ALL knew it would be, whether we admitted it or not!

 

[Black Swan]

I told you you would not like what the 9th actually just said.

They said, in layman's terms, you do not have to use the Nic, but if you use anything less and get it passed you are going to get sued and lose. Unless of course you use something the West finds tolerable enough to finally throw up our hands and quit suing you. But here is the fact, you are not getting DOH, not DOH with C&Rs, not modified DOH on LOS, nor any other unilaterally imposed DOH scheme. Anything less than the Nic and you get sued and lose.

The two liberal judges are trying to further mediate the dispute. They are giving you room to do the right thing and simply use the Nic or make other compromises. The conservative judge called BS, said you are guilty and should have to pay for the harm already inflicted.

But to directly answere your question, it does not matter how the rest of the airline merged, anything less than the Nic harms the West. We do not have to tell a judge and jury about Joe Monda, we told an arbitrator about Joe, and the arbitrator decided that Joe benefitted immensly by this merger as it almost instantly moved him from his bottom about to be furloughed position, to a point with some security and furlough protection with hundreds of pilots below him. Just did not give him my captain seat, so it was not good enough for usapa.

Crackpot judges? Hand tied juries? Senile arbitrators? Greedy west pilots? Here is the news flash Swan. The key to our first deal and any future deal was not Wake or Nicolau or some other supposedly biased unfair east bogey man. All we ever needed or will ever need in the future is an impartial decision. The key is you are in the wrong, you hold the moral low ground, you have rationalized a course of action that has compromised your integrity.

Get it yet?

INTEGRITY MATTERS

Don't tell me I don't like the story coming out of the 9th. I love it. You guys prematurely adjudicated, and forced a statement out of the 9th on the Nic that was fabulous. I just am stating I know you will sue if you don't get to jump on someone else to make it happen. That is fact. You need to get what nobody else at the airline got. A windfall. The rest of the airline, without exception went DOH, and you are damaged if you don't get to leap over someone else. Then you wrap it in the INTEGRITY flag. What a crock!

 

[Phoenix]

I told you you would not like what the 9th actually just said.

They said, in layman's terms, you do not have to use the Nic, but if you use anything less and get it passed you are going to get sued and lose. Unless of course you use something the West finds tolerable enough to finally throw up our hands and quit suing you. But here is the fact, you are not getting DOH, not DOH with C&Rs, not modified DOH on LOS, nor any other unilaterally imposed DOH scheme. Anything less than the Nic and you get sued and lose.

The two liberal judges are trying to further mediate the dispute. They are giving you room to do the right thing and simply use the Nic or make other compromises. The conservative judge called BS, said you are guilty and should have to pay for the harm already inflicted.

But to directly answere your question, it does not matter how the rest of the airline merged, anything less than the Nic harms the West. We do not have to tell a judge and jury about Joe Monda, we told an arbitrator about Joe, and the arbitrator decided that Joe benefitted immensly by this merger as it almost instantly moved him from his bottom about to be furloughed position, to a point with some security and furlough protection with hundreds of pilots below him. Just did not give him my captain seat, so it was not good enough for usapa.

Crackpot judges? Hand tied juries? Senile arbitrators? Greedy west pilots? Here is the news flash Swan. The key to our first deal and any future deal was not Wake or Nicolau or some other supposedly biased unfair east bogey man. All we ever needed or will ever need in the future is an impartial decision. The key is you are in the wrong, you hold the moral low ground, you have rationalized a course of action that has compromised your integrity.

Get it yet?

INTEGRITY MATTERS

That's what I Like about you. The caped marauder can't hold a candle.