US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

....

There is no victory here...only losers.
..
Are you sick of it yet? I know I am.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Yeah, lets just capitulate to whoever will accept our surrender so we can finally declare victory and move on. P.S. Glad to see you back on the boards. Nic4us needs a little company.. its like salt and pepper shakers.. who can live with one but not both. I was in withdrawal.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yeah, lets just capitulate to whoever will accept our surrender so we can finally declare victory and move on. P.S. Glad to see you back on the boards. Nic4us needs a little company.. its like salt and pepper shakers.. who can live with one but not both. I was in withdrawal.

"It's only a flesh wound!!"

 

[luvthe9]

I believe the West piltos and the majority of East Captains are tired of not getting a pay raise 5 years after the merger.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

God, What is wrong with you? The majority of east captains (yes senior ones) support the junior guys with the exception of a few self centered ones, they know who they are!!!!! Get over it!!!!! What you "believe" is only in your mind and not reality.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

God, What is wrong with you? The majority of east captains (yes senior ones) support support the junior guys with the exception of a few self centered ones, they know who they are!!!!! Get over it!!!!!

Yea, the ones that still wear ALPA pins. You know, the "I've got mine" crowd.

ALPA's motto: "All for one, as long as that one is me!"

 

[Heretic]

Two of the three judges ruled in favor? This is a blatant example of "tyranny of the majority"!! Surely, something must be done. The system is flawed. Down with Democracy!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Um. It is 22:00 east coast time and just checked pacer. Nothing filed yet. The last filed paper in this case was 3/24/2010. There is nothing that says anything about changing the deadline. Agreement but not filed interesting way to run a case.

Would you care to post this 88 page legal document? If it is not June 2 when is it? Where is the order amending the deadline?

You should really read this DOC on pg 55, it is an awesome read! It will be interesting to see ALPA settle this one! MM!

 

[Pilot692]

If AOL and the Addington group files an appeal with the Full 9th Circuit I believe regardless of the next legal decision this case is headed to the Supreme Court. US Airways' pilots are going to be bogged down in months-and-months and maybe years of litigation with both parties digging their heals in and the pilots will fly under LOA 93/C2004 for a long-time.

Meanwhile, other US Airways labor groups have their post merger contracts amendable, they will get their second pay raises, and the industry keeps moving ahead of US Airways' pilots in contract improvements.

There is no victory here...only losers.

Meanwhile, after reading the Ninth's Award it is all up to USAPA because they have to negotiate in good faith for both sides. The court states, "USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award. By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members - both East and West - in mind, under the pain of unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified."

Another words, If USAPA negotiates a seniority agreement that intentionally harms the West pilots from the Nicolau Award, and it is ratified by the East pilots, the claim or case is now "ripe".

It appears to me today's ruling is clearly not a victory for USAPA and places the union in a no-win position. Another words right now there will be no Nicolau Award, but there will be no new contract without the Nicolau Award either. Thus, what will the union do so the DFR lawsuit is not "unquestionably ripe" while AOL and Addington appeals? And, all the court did was "defer judicial intervention for USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR without harming the West pilots."

Maybe, maybe USAPA and its supporters now find them self in an even worse position.

At US Airways for the pilots, whether its the Hardliners vs. Pragmatics, East vs. West, or North vs. South - how come all the pilots do is fight with one another? Nothing seems to ever get accomplished to help the pilots. According to Bill Swelbar USAPA has been a "consistent objection to every strategic initiative generated by US Airways management," which is why he he challenged speculation that United and US Airways could put together a merger. Why are US Airways' pilots so dysfunctional and the laughing stock of the industry and the AFL-CIO? Its not suprising to me that the Delta and United MEC's wanted nothing to do with US Airways' Hardline union leaders, whether it was ALPA or USAPA. Who can blame them?

Are you sick of it yet? I know I am.

Regards,

USA320Pilot


Can I have a hit off your bong?

 

[GuntherA320]

That's getting old too. God knows what it'll be, but rest assured, another straw grabber is teed up and ready for the next humiliation.

It must have been a reallllllllly big straw!!!

 

[Phoenix]

What do you make of this Jim? I haven't read the whole decision, but with that part is sounds like USAPA needs to tread lightly. I'm not sure what everyone is jumping for joy about. Doesn't sound like a slam dunk. Sounds like they got lucky and bought some time, with the endless stalemate continuing. Am I reading this wrong?

Can someone quote the part that says specifically that USAPA is free and clear to do what ever they want now, with no risk involved?

the decission

Once a new CBA is ratified then a DFR suit would be ripe. That was the whole point. Its an internal union matter until the CBA ratification is successful in establishing a new contract. Once a majority of the members ratify a contract, whatever it contains, then anyone can submit a DFR suit for any reason (ex. they arbitrarily made all tall skinny pilots junior to the tall fat pilots, or maybe they used DOH with conditions and restrictions) and the union would have the right to defend itself. Or maybe even something about crew meals... sue away when its ratified, because its ripe. No guarantees.. except to be heard. Such a scenario, should it occur, will be far different than the Wake constraints and jury leading proved to be. But... HPfa is reading the decision real slowly, so you might want to stand by for a slower conclusion.

 

[Black Swan]

Wow! So let me get this straight... The MDA suit is dead? Wait. What about all the pontifications from our east friends? Ya know the big changes this was going to bring? Black Swan? Boeing? Bus? Anyone? You guys care to respond to this?

There is a settlement coming on this from what I hear. What you are getting from the west is nothing reliable. Be patient.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

the decission

Once a new CBA is ratified then a DFR suit would be ripe. That was the whole point. Its an internal union matter until the CBA ratification is successful in establishing a new contract. Once a majority of the members ratify a contract, whatever it contains, then anyone can submit a DFR suit for any reason (ex. they arbitrarily made all tall skinny pilots junior to the tall fat pilots, or maybe they used DOH with conditions and restrictions) and the union would have the right to defend itself. Or maybe even something about crew meals. Such a scenario, should it occur, will be far different than the Wake constraints proved to be. But... HPfa is reading the decision real slowly, so you might want to stand by for a slower conclusion.

I'm good with the tall fat thing.

I don't think I've ever seen a contract where some group or other doesn't talk about DFR. Normally, however, they're almost impossible to win, unless the judge stacks the trial against the union, like we just witnessed.

 

[hp_fa]

the decission
Such a scenario, should it occur, will be far different than the Wake constraints and jury leading proved to be. But... HPfa is reading the decision real slowly, so you might want to stand by for a slower conclusion.

Sorry, I have had a busy day away from reading the decision, but I have read it.

First off, I will be consistent and say that I believe the majority got it wrong, but that is my opinion and it is as valid (or not) as anyone else's opinion.

Second, again from outside the process because I do not speak with the Addington attorneys, I expect them to file a motion for an en banc hearing by the whole court. That is pretty much a no-brainer at this point and won't cost anyone much money unless they need to re-brief the case.

Third, the decision did not deal with the merits of the suit, only that they felt it was not ripe at the time of filing and does not become ripe until a CBA is voted upon and passed. The problem arises of who represents teh West pilots when they have been encompassed within USAPA and without a "West" voice other than the AWAPPA/Leondas folks. That means that if USAPA wanted to negotiate something other than what the constitution calls for they realistically have no one with whom to negotiate. Maybe a solution can be reached to that, but I don't know and that gets into union politics, which I try to steer clear of.

As some others have posted, this really delays the whole situation. Also, what is the response of the Company? That, to me, is a good question.

Anyway, that is what I see from here. I think that the 9th would grant an en banc hearing, but then I thought the Addington appellants would win the appeal.

If you are celebrating, have a beer for me.

 

[Black Swan]

What do you make of this Jim? I haven't read the whole decision, but with that part is sounds like USAPA needs to tread lightly. I'm not sure what everyone is jumping for joy about. Doesn't sound like a slam dunk. Sounds like they got lucky and bought some time, with the endless stalemate continuing. Am I reading this wrong?

Can someone quote the part that says specifically that USAPA is free and clear to do what ever they want now, with no risk involved?

Yes, let's have two more ALPA worshippers come to the rescue of the west. It is over. The Nic is dead. New bargaining agent. Wake carried you as far as he could.

 

[Hate2fly]

There is a settlement coming on this from what I hear. What you are getting from the west is nothing reliable. Be patient.

Black Swan,

The desert judge (Bush Boy} got spanked today! Remember we still have two more earthquakes for the west to deal with. LOA 93 pay restoration and the MDA law suit. I still believe we in the east will prevail in both of these issues. We will be 3 for 3.

Just like B. Wilder said in his blog..........this became a hobby for the desert judge!

You guys out west better call aquaman and his co-founder buddies for some answers.

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Internal union dispute. Just like we told you all along. Baptiste and Wilder spot on . Wake, on the other hand, was absolutely reprehensible in the way he handled this, WITH PREJUDICE. It was like a mad high school experiment. Of course the jury agreed. Wake practically blindfolded them. Total miscarriage of justice, endorsed by the West. You guys should apologize.