US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[AWE Dog]

Unobtainium Badge backers, Get em while their Hot!!!!!!

 

[767intl]

He is not obligated to adhere to any agreement signed with ALPA. To do that would perpetuate the former bargaining agent. The Nicolau list has not been implemented. Did you really read what the 9th said? Because what I read clearly stated the Nic does not have to be the method of integration. I really don't think you know what you are talking about. Of course you don't think this is over. You have been sticking it in here forever, and most of what you say is way off the mark. Read the 9th again before you come in here spouting a bunch of half truths.

None of them know what they're talking about right now, BS. They're just desperation shotgunning for anything that might keep them afloat. They want to believe that anything less than St. NIC is "unfair," because NIC was arbitrated through the ALPA process. ALPA's gone and fairness in any future court DFR will be in the eye of the jury, which will obviously be read word for word what the Ninth wrote about the NIC not needing to be included. And there won't be any "Wake Turbulence" skewing what the jury gets to hear. A staple job would be unfair, but as long as any future jury gets to hear how other LCC unions did their seniority, I don't see DOH with restrictions/fences being "unfair." The next judge could be an "Anti'Wake" and not even allow the NIC to be entered into evidence, just like Wake wouldn't allow the jury to hear how other unions, here and elsewhere, have merged their lists. The final CBA list won't be the NIC, but the Ninth has stated what it thought about the NIC having to be in the future list. It doesn't have to be.

Allegheny-Mohawk, Allegheny -Lake Central USAir-PSA, USAir-Piedmont. All DOH and considered completely fair. Fences and restrictions smooth out the rough spots. Any time Nicolau entered the picture, there were problems. We can easily go DOH with fences and pass the fairness test. It is our history. Anyone in their right mind saw the Nicolau was rife with problems. So unfair it caused the worst problems in airline merger history. An aberration. Not to be repeated. Unfair.

They said you MIGHT have a case. They were not willing to speculate on that at the present time. Because they correctly stated NOBODY knows yet if you will really be harmed.Your idea of harm might not be what the rest of the world thinks.

Right on, my friend.

Well, you must be tossing darts for that assumption. The fact is that nothing was resolved on Friday other than two out of three decided they didn't want to deviate from the general ripeness rule. Fine. The en banc option appears viable but regardless, we'll be doing it again in a year or two - or three - or four. The reality for all pilots is the sands of time.

En Banc appears viable? Your kidding, right? Haven't you read the rules for an En Banc appeal? They've been quoted 8 times on this thread already.

 

[AWE Dog]

As I said the entire contract has to be fair. The last set of C&R were already found to be unfair. usapa is incapable of knowing what fair is. Add to that 90% of the economics go to the east. Not in the wide range of reasonableness. The west pilots WILL be disadvantaged. The court was fooled into thinking that this is your normal union with all best interests in mind. They did not understand it was designed to disadvantage the west.

DFR!

This post is priceless.

 

[cleardirect]

Heard a west guy (belive it was an F/O) got his clocked cleaned in a fight in the Sim building (east) after mouthing off to an east guy for a while, supposedly security and the cops were called, anyone else hear of this incident?

Almost got the facts right. It was an east A330 wide body senior international captain that viciously attacked an innocent west A321 and punched his rudder on the taxiway in CLT.

You guys keep breaking your toys Parker is not going to give you anymore.

 

[kubotapilot]

Hi Cleard,

DFR=$$$

From what I have heard, the Addington case has cost the west well over 1 Mil, of which it has actually paid $120,000. When you all finish paying your fine barristers, which, BTW won't come from your now cancelled damages trial, where are you going to find the even bigger $$$ to pay for a new frivolous case????

You reap what you sow, and in a desert without water you can't reap all that much!

As I said the entire contract has to be fair. The last set of C&R were already found to be unfair. usapa is incapable of knowing what fair is. Add to that 90% of the economics go to the east. Not in the wide range of reasonableness. The west pilots WILL be disadvantaged. The court was fooled into thinking that this is your normal union with all best interests in mind. They did not understand it was designed to disadvantage the west.

DFR!

 

[cleardirect]

Hi Cleard,

DFR=$$$

From what I have heard, the Addington case has cost the west well over 1 Mil, of which it has actually paid $120,000. When you all finish paying your fine barristers, which, BTW won't come from your now cancelled damages trial, where are you going to find the even bigger $$$ to pay for a new frivolous case????

You reap what you sow, and in a desert without water you can't reap all that much!

And how would you "hear" how much or how little the lawyers have been paid? Some secret inside source or just crew room FUD?

If you think that you guys can win from lack of money keep thinking that. I love being underestimated.

 

[cleardirect]

June 7, 2010 1300 EST. Still no paperwork filed in the federal district court of NY for the MDA case.

Maybe you could not afford the filing fee. Are you sure this case has not been dismissed? Where is this 88 page legal brilliance? The court does not have it. Was that just for the personal consumption so you know what your argument would have been?

All I can go on is what is filed with the court not what people tell me. Have not seen the order extending the deadline, have not seen the filing from the plaintiffs.


How are those donations holding up?

 

[767intl]

Spanked? He made 1.8 mil for this one. More for the last one.

Gettin' spanked all the way to the bank....

Oh, wait. I forgot that he was padding his bill. He likes the west guys so much he doesn't mind going to jail for 'em.

Oldie, Harper BILLED 1.8M. I doubt if he collected even 0.8M. Gut check time for Harper and Co. How much more non-billable hours do they want to throw at this one?

With 47 judges (I know, maybe it only takes 9 to go En Banc), just hearing an En Banc case is a logistical nightmare. With 60% of them appointed by Democratic presidents, with like liberal leanings to Tashima and Graber, does an En Banc, if heard, have a chance? But maybe they'll take it, if only to smash down Wake twice on one case.

All told, AOL, Harper and Wake did us a huge favor. Their premature adjudication cost them Million$ and got for us what has to be unusual in appeals to say the least. We got an advisory opinion of sorts on what the Ninth thought of fairness, and it didn't require the NIC. The Ninth made its case. Let's see AOL pull a rabbit out of their hats.

 

[luvthe9]

As I said the entire contract has to be fair. The last set of C&R were already found to be unfair. usapa is incapable of knowing what fair is. Add to that 90% of the economics go to the east. Not in the wide range of reasonableness. The west pilots WILL be disadvantaged. The court was fooled into thinking that this is your normal union with all best interests in mind. They did not understand it was designed to disadvantage the west.

DFR!

Yes the East needs to be made whole for the pay diaparity and I do believe I saw Parker State in the video that the west flying has increased 28% since the merge while the east has only increased 7 or 8%, the east is getting the short end of the stick!!!!!

 

[Barrister]

As I said the entire contract has to be fair. The last set of C&R were already found to be unfair. usapa is incapable of knowing what fair is. Add to that 90% of the economics go to the east. Not in the wide range of reasonableness. The west pilots WILL be disadvantaged. The court was fooled into thinking that this is your normal union with all best interests in mind. They did not understand it was designed to disadvantage the west.

DFR!

Yea, and let the jury hear how the West has made MUCH more money in the last .....by the time it gets to trial....7 years AND lost 10-20 years of seniority....
lets see how that plays in Peoria........The next Judge will not move nearly as fast as Wake. Count on it. What witnesses are ya gonna call to explain your opposition to pay parity.
My guess.......you do a LOT worse under the next Judge. ...not better. Take your best shot.......or come to the table.

NPJB

 

[CallawayGolf]

Oldie, Harper BILLED 1.8M. I doubt if he collected even 0.8M. Gut check time for Harper and Co. How much more non-billable hours do they want to throw at this one?

With 47 judges (I know, maybe it only takes 9 to go En Banc), just hearing an En Banc case is a logistical nightmare. With 60% of them appointed by Democratic presidents, with like liberal leanings to Tashima and Graber, does an En Banc, if heard, have a chance? But maybe they'll take it, if only to smash down Wake twice on one case.

All told, AOL, Harper and Wake did us a huge favor. Their premature adjudication cost them Million$ and got for us what has to be unusual in appeals to say the least. We got an advisory opinion of sorts on what the Ninth thought of fairness, and it didn't require the NIC. The Ninth made its case. Let's see AOL pull a rabbit out of their hats.

I tend to agree with your prediction. Unfortunately, thus far this case has been decided by federal judges based on their political leanings and there is no reason to think future rulings will be any different. Liberal democrat appointed judges will rarely rule objectively when a labor union is one of the litigants because the rule of law and blind objectivity take a backseat to rewarding the hand that feeds you. Wake and Bybee have no such allegiance to the big labor unions and they ruled based on the facts of the case. They had no predetermined prejudice against either party and the rule of law was upheld in their decisions. However, the 9th is so politically motivated and stacked to the liberal left that an en banc ruling will likely yield the same politically-motivated ruling as the three-judge panel.

As far as I’m concerned the courts will no longer provide an avenue for justice to be served. It’s up to management now to either go along with USAPA’s planned intention to unfairly represent the West through its DOH policy or to hold firm their position that section 22 is no longer negotiable with the NIC award having been accepted. If they choose to get in bed with the unscrupulous USAPA leadership, then West pilots will have a very tough road to climb after USAPA passes a new CBA via ratification. A DFR win is still possible but by no means assured based on the biased views of the courts. If the company is intransigent with regard to the NIC, then the stalemate will continue for a very long time to come. This matter has never lacked significant intrigue and I guess that will continue for a long time to come as well.

 

[Barrister]

As I said the entire contract has to be fair. The last set of C&R were already found to be unfair. usapa is incapable of knowing what fair is. Add to that 90% of the economics go to the east. Not in the wide range of reasonableness. The west pilots WILL be disadvantaged. The court was fooled into thinking that this is your normal union with all best interests in mind. They did not understand it was designed to disadvantage the west.

DFR!

Clear ...Dude you are beyond hope. The 9th specifically mentioned the
finding in the Dist. Ct. that USAPA was founded to circumvent the NIC
and they DID NOT CARE. Seriously Dude you need to read the opinion.
The next case will be full blown....then we can put on Dean Collello and
ask him how he feels about a 2 month newbie being senior to him with 17 years
and spend a few days on parity.........and the show stopper will be the fact that
20-30 Easties a month are retiring (by then) and NIC would have given 80%
of those seats to West. Don't bring a slingshot to an intellectual gunfight.

NPJB

 

[233KILLS]

Clear ...Dude you are beyond hope. The 9th specifically mentioned the
finding in the Dist. Ct. that USAPA was founded to circumvent the NIC
and they DID NOT CARE. Seriously Dude you need to read the opinion.
The next case will be full blown....then we can put on Dean Collello and
ask him how he feels about a 2 month newbie being senior to him with 17 years
and spend a few days on parity.........and the show stopper will be the fact that
20-30 Easties a month are retiring (by then) and NIC would have given 80%
of those seats to West. Don't bring a slingshot to an intellectual gunfight.

NPJB

Has the company said anything under oath as to what list they plan to use Nic or DOH?

 

[luvthe9]

Clear, come on now enough is enough you lost plain and simple your were led down the wrong road by Ferguson. It's time to take the loss like a man!!!!

 

[Barrister]

Has the company said anything under oath as to what list they plan to use Nic or DOH?

Maybe yes maybe no. They accepted a list given to them by the then CBA, ALPA to be used in a joint contract.
There is no joint contract. In the meantime the CBA has been replaced by USAPA. ALPA is gone. ALPA is no
longer the CBA. The wording of the 9th suggests that the NIC need not be used. Who knows.

NPJB