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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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When you consider that a route like PHX-PHL, or PHX-DCA is flown by the
West, but is then tallied as "what could be considered and east route".

Another avoidance. How do you feel about West crews hubbing in CLT. You know CLT - ORD - CLT then overnighting to do CLT -ATL - CLT the next day? Or how about PHL - LAX - PHL.

All East flying for many years prior to the merger. Routes and cities never served by America West.

Do you feel these are West routes and should be flown by West pilots?
 
When US Airways and America West merged in the fall of 2005, pilot officials from both sides expressed optimism that seniority could be worked out in a matter of months. But a year of direct talks failed. A mediator in October 2006 could not bring them together. So they entered binding arbitration before a panel led by George Nicolau, an 82-year-old New York arbitrator with experience in seniority disputes.

“All of us on the board kept saying, ‘Sit down, work this through,’ ” Mr. Nicolau said. But he added: “The intransigence worked all the way through. We simply couldn’t shake themBECAUSE OF THE GREEDY a$$ east

The US Airways pilots felt that after two bankruptcies and lost pensions, they needed to make up ground, and so they proposed a list that had 900 or so US Airways pilots atop it and that would have placed some furloughed US Airways pilots above active America West pilots. THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE WEST AGAIN GREEDY A$$ EAST[/b]The America West pilots, meanwhile, argued that their company saved US Airways from liquidation. So they wanted a list shuffling the two groups together, which essentially ignored date of hire. And they wanted hundreds of US Airways pilots at the bottom of the list so that America West pilots would be insulated from layoffs.

“Neither side blinked,” said Mr. Stephan, the union chief from the US Airways side.

The arbitrator’s award put 423 US Airways pilots at the top, to keep them on international routes they coveted, but mostly shuffled the two lists together, a huge win for the much younger America West pilots. COMPLETELY UNFAIR BUT HEY ITS ARBITRATION AND WE UNDERSTOOD THE RISKS

The US Airways pilots sued to overturn the decision. But a splinter group formed US Airline Pilots and quickly gathered enough authorization votes to force a union election. If those who signed authorization cards vote for the new union, it would have enough votes to oust the Air Line Pilots Association and represent both old US Airways pilots, known as the East, and America West pilots. AGAIN CAN ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS GREEDY A$$ EAST“The Nicolau award enraged the East pilots,” said Scott Theuer, an officer of the group seeking to oust the old union. “We have a lot to recoup.” The group said, however, that it would offer fences to America West pilots to preserve their current jobs.

AND WE FEEL THAT THE WEST SHOULD PAY FOR OUR CAREER CHOICES WITH THEIR CAREERS. HOW DO WE DESCRIBE THIS PEOPLE?? DO I EVEN NEED TO SAY THE WORDS AGAIN????

The new group is led by Stephen Bradford, 54, a US Airways pilot since 1986. Like many, he has been promoted to captain and twice bounced back to first officer status as the airline shrank. The last time, between pay-level cuts and losing his captain’s status, his pay was reduced by more than $100,000. His colleague, Mr. Theuer, said: “The East pilots had lost so much over the years. Seniority was all we had left.”

GREEDY GREEDY GREEDY!!!!!

AWA320
 
AWA, okay we give, were greedy that's why were working under LOA 93, Now that's a 40watt statement,enjoy that WEST ATTRITION! MM! You make more, good for you, be HAPPY with your seperate ops!
 
AWA, okay we give, were greedy that's why were working under LOA 93, Now that's a 40watt statement,enjoy that WEST ATTRITION! MM! You make more, good for you, be HAPPY with your seperate ops!

Naw i'm gonna enjoy the EAST attrition when the DJ is handed down and the company says we have no choice but the NIC going fwd.. This is something that I once never wanted but since you all have cost me money and you are so big in to recouping then that will be my recoupment at YOUR and oldie's expense. Remember what your responses will be when I say to you, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!!! :lol:

AWA320
 
Naw i'm gonna enjoy the EAST attrition when the DJ is handed down and the company says we have no choice but the NIC going fwd.. This is something that I once never wanted but since you all have cost me money and you are so big in to recouping then that will be my recoupment at YOUR and oldie's expense. Remember what your responses will be when I say to you, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!!! :lol:

AWA320
Man, are you gonna be disappointed. Try not to cry in that crew meal.
 
Naw i'm gonna enjoy the EAST attrition when the DJ is handed down and the company says we have no choice but the NIC going fwd.. This is something that I once never wanted but since you all have cost me money and you are so big in to recouping then that will be my recoupment at YOUR and oldie's expense. Remember what your responses will be when I say to you, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!!! :lol:

AWA320
Silver will dismiss for lack of jurisdiction, As for the rest of your post, 40WATTS! MM, And our response will be," GO AHEAD!"
 
Yep. No doubt about it. The west guys are sure greedy. Trying to steal something that others have worked hard for. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Worked hard for when? While they were on furlough?

"I was hired 20 years ago. But I only have 8 years active service."


USAPA = Bullying the East pilots for years. Long live LOA93. ~M. Cleary
 
"somebody who continues to work or replaces a worker during a strike."

Does that fit your perspective? It will certainly be your moniker for the next 20 years as far as your peers are concerned. Feel free to talk yourself into an alternate reality.
Good Luck with that.
 
Another avoidance. How do you feel about West crews hubbing in CLT. You know CLT - ORD - CLT then overnighting to do CLT -ATL - CLT the next day? Or how about PHL - LAX - PHL.

All East flying for many years prior to the merger. Routes and cities never served by America West.

Do you feel these are West routes and should be flown by West pilots?
There should not be a East Pilot or a West Pilot. It's US Airways Pilots. USAPA, the devisive force between the groups is preventing ALL of us from gaining at the "new" company. Those who support the endeavors of this devisive group are only hurting themselves. Especially when it comes to fighting over a senoirity list that was decided upon by a neutral thrid party arbitrator. Mutually agreed upon by both East and West.


USAPA = Keeping your wages low.
 
There should not be a East Pilot or a West Pilot. It's US Airways Pilots. USAPA, the devisive force between the groups is preventing ALL of us from gaining at the "new" company. Those who support the endeavors of this devisive group are only hurting themselves. Especially when it comes to fighting over a senoirity list that was decided upon by a neutral thrid party arbitrator. Mutually agreed upon by both East and West.


USAPA = Keeping your wages low.

Not trying to put words in your mouth...
So, raising East to West payscale then adding 3% is a non-issue for you? It's not acceptable to me, I'm just trying to comprehend your perspective. Many West posters feel that this is an unfair windfall to the East. This one is straight forward, can you respond in kind?
 
Another avoidance. How do you feel about West crews hubbing in CLT. You know CLT - ORD - CLT then overnighting to do CLT -ATL - CLT the next day? Or how about PHL - LAX - PHL.

All East flying for many years prior to the merger. Routes and cities never served by America West.

Do you feel these are West routes and should be flown by West pilots?

No I do not feel those are West routes, but I do kind of like the long CLT layovers, not my favorite, but far better than some. I hear you folks no longer stay in Tempe, I know that hotel was bad, but I would think better location than downtown Phoenix.

I am not trying to avoid anything. Maybe you missed the concept of what I am saying, I will try to elaborate.

I am saying that, First, because of the relative amounts of flying done by both sides,(the east does much more flying than the West), that when put into percentages, it gives this aparent huge disparity, that is in reality non-existent. Also, there was never any mention of how this was measured. Was it in block hours, individual flights, seat miles, what?

This whole thing is a wash when it comes down to it. The West is flying stuff we never did before, and so is the east. What is the big deal? The TA calls for min block, we get ours, you get yours, how when and why, deteremined by marketing.

You can quote all the individual legs you want, there are counter parts that the east is doing. Cabo turns from PHX etc, the other night I arrive in PHX late in the evening surprised to see there is an entire bank of east airplanes leaving for ORD, CLT, LAX, and I think SAN, was that a one time deal because of the holiday weekend, or are you hubbing east crews in PHX?

The point is, this is a complete non-issue. Nobody is taking from the east, you do not have any rights to the flying other than the fleet min TA guarantees.
 
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/pressreleases/2003/10-8-03_03.AWA4.htm FREE, blameing that on USAPA too! You want a contract, conditions and restrictions with DOH as per our by-laws, then DFR your little hearts out! Other than that take a good look at NAUGLER v ALPA dockett 118, pgs 6-10, let us know what ALPA says OK! Other than that enjoy seperate ops! BTW tell the AFA to blame USAPA also for THEIR LACK OF A CBA!
 
Not trying to put words in your mouth...
So, raising East to West payscale then adding 3% is a non-issue for you? It's not acceptable to me, I'm just trying to comprehend your perspective. Many West posters feel that this is an unfair windfall to the East. This one is straight forward, can you respond in kind?
The Transition Agreement was never meant to be used on a long term, nor devisive basis. We should all prosper equally moving forward. The hang-up is the East using their majority to avoid the implementation of the Nicolau Award. And we ALL will continue to stagnate until you 'get over' it and move on. I am not saying its easy for you. But its been settled using a neutral third party arbitrator.

It is true that the East will get a bigger increase in their pay proportionate to the West. How long will it take? It's up to you. IF you enjoy your low wages on principle, then dont complain to anyone about the predicament that you continue to put yourself in. A 3% raise for the West is pitiful. Considering that Spirit, Airtran, Allegiant, JetBlue make more than the West and WAY MORE than the East, 3% wont cut it.

When you are ready for a raise, tell the thugs running the East union called USAPA, to put up a contract to vote on. The company is ready. I am willing to bet that a contract that includes the Nicolau Award will pass on first try. There are many East pilots who would vote for it. Your thugs running the union are afraid of this.

USAPA = Al Qaeda
 
"somebody who continues to work or replaces a worker during a strike."

Does that fit your perspective? It will certainly be your moniker for the next 20 years as far as your peers are concerned. Feel free to talk yourself into an alternate reality.
Good Luck with that.

You my friend are totally clueless.

I have said many times I would not cross during a strike.

Further, who has 20 years left? Not me. I certainly am not willing to give the 10 years usapa wants to steal from me just to get back to a number that could hold the job I have had for over the last 10 years.

It is statements like yours, and the east posters who are concerned about attrition out to the year 2030, that lead me to believe I am debating with a younger pilot who thinks he can steal my position and status.

Sorry junior, furlough sucks, but you ain't coming off it and stealing West jobs.
 
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