US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

And there it is. You want a do over plain and simple, everything you got since 2005 is because of the merger not in spite of it. So your logic is this, ignore the arbitration long enough and when i'm in a better position I want a do over to account for my better position 6 years after we are a single company. Do you really think any court will buy that?

fodase,

I hope a court will buy it...that is how the West wins damages from these reneging malcontents..and throws usapa to the curb.

They have intentional stolen opportunities, positions and status from West pilots to further themselves, and the damage clock started in 2008.

 

[Phoenix]

Have you thought this thru? The reason this happen is that you guys were constantly lied to by the same guys you have in usapa lying to you right now. I closely followed the arbitration hearings. Every day the west MC would release the actual transcripts for the day, on the east Dean Collelo would write his opinion of what transpired, and his take on a daily basis was simple "we won again today!". You guys never saw the transcript and the majority of you guys never read the Nic. and have no clue how it truly affects you. You have elected a union that constantly lies and constantly tells you what you want to hear. But to get back to your point here, you want a do over after your fortunes have improved.

The 9th has already agreed that there is no static bargaining position during the process.

 

[traderjake]

You got some underlying issue....want to enlighten us??????????????

NICDOA
NPJB

The issue is that it's unfair to make a Reserve First Officer senior to a Captain on the same airplane.

It's also unfair to put a thousand West pilots including Captains junior to the last Reserve First Officer on the East list.

You have cognitive or ethical issues if you can't see that.

 

[nic4us]

Real glad you didn't mind having a 6 year guy senior to your 16 years.
1300 on top of you and most decades younger.
You got some underlying issue....want to enlighten us??????????????

NICDOA
NPJB

It really does not matter if they are decades younger or one week younger. Although, you are full of it with the decades comment.

What matters is their position and status was superior to yours, and you are not going to steal it from them no matter when you or they have to retire.

 

[fodase]

The 9th has already agreed that there is no static bargaining position during the process.

Well since you haven't bother to answer any questions i'll ask one more: Usapa claims that the 9th said they were free to implement a doh list, do you believe that to be true?

 

[sumadarson]

Well since you haven't bother to answer any questions i'll ask one more: Usapa claims that the 9th said they were free to implement a doh list, do you believe that to be true?

"Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award."


9th Circuit court published ruling

 

[fodase]

9th Circuit court published ruling

So in your opinion the 9th said usapa is free to impose doh or whatever usapa deems proper on the west?

 

[Phoenix]

Well since you haven't bother to answer any questions i'll ask one more: Usapa claims that the 9th said they were free to implement a doh list, do you believe that to be true?

Where did USAPA say that? PROOF!

The 9th left USAPA free to bargain with the Company. Implementation of whatever is bargained is only effected via the wish of the pilots in a ratification vote.

 

[fodase]

Where did USAPA say that? PROOF!

The 9th left USAPA free to bargain with the Company. Implementation of whatever is bargained is only effected via the wish of the pilots in a ratification vote.

So then, usapa will propose a list and management will counter with a different list until they agree, is that correct?

 

[Phoenix]

So then, usapa will propose a list and management will counter with a different list until they agree, is that correct?

The pilot's bargaining agent is free to bargain with the company. If you think they should do it in the way you just described then I'm sure they would welcome your input, after all they legally represent all pilots, both East and West.

Hey, where is your PROOF! that they said they would impose a DOH list?

 

[fodase]

The pilot's bargaining agent is free to bargain with the company. If you think they should do it in the way you just described then I'm sure they would welcome your input, after all they legally represent all pilots, both East and West.

Hey, where is your PROOF! that they said they would impose a DOH list?

Are you kidding? That's all they say, where have you been? I said the company won't negotiate seniority, they will just accept what usapa gives them, you claimed that seniority would be negotiated. Which is it?

 

[A320 Driver]

Have you thought this thru? The reason this happen is that you guys were constantly lied to by the same guys you have in usapa lying to you right now. I closely followed the arbitration hearings. Every day the west MC would release the actual transcripts for the day, on the east Dean Collelo would write his opinion of what transpired, and his take on a daily basis was simple "we won again today!". You guys never saw the transcript and the majority of you guys never read the Nic. and have no clue how it truly affects you. You have elected a union that constantly lies and constantly tells you what you want to hear. But to get back to your point here, you want a do over after your fortunes have improved.

There is no question our MEC made mistakes and gave in to a very organized, very verbal minority in our pilot group. I know the direction the Merger comittee was headed. I talked to them personally. What they told me and what they did are two completely different things. So what changed it? The MEC.

What I want is probably impossible. I want my old job back...the one I used to enjoy. This one is full of anxiety, and hatred and hard feelings. The NIC, if it is ever implemented will, IMO, break the camels back. DOH in it's purest form would do the same thing. You say I want a do over now that my fortunes improved? The NIC didn't hurt me personally to any degree. But it will hurt many of my friends and I honestly feel it will harm the airline. Even if you win, you will ultimately lose unless you remain isolated in PHX. This thing has gone on too long...the award is outdated.

You also asked in another post if I thought there was a venue to put the fairness of the NIC on trial against the present paradigm. No, I don't believe there is, but I can still want it! 😀

An East poster said he couldn't figure me out because I seem inconsistent in my opinions. I imagine that is true. I read things for myself. I judge things for myself and call them like I see them. I read the NIC cover to cover when it came out and my judgment was that it was punitive and prejudicial because we ticked NIC off and mishandled the process. That was our fault, no doubt, but what NIC did was short sighted and petty. But what about now? What happens going forward if one side or the other wins? I don't see any good coming from it. IMO, the only way we could prosper is to start from scratch. But we won't because guys in your court are committed to the NIC and guys over here are committed to DOH. Save the legal mumbo jumbo and "we don't have anyone that represents West". AOL is the closest thing I've ever seen to a labor union without being one. Collectively, we could do anything we wanted.

When pilots have to buy tickets on their own airline to travel because they can't count on being given the jumpseat, things are bad...REALLY bad. And I feel they will get worse.

Driver B)

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/06/continental_united_pilots_say_joint_contract_is_nowhere_near_done.html

 

[Piedmont1984]

There is no question our MEC made mistakes and gave in to a very organized, very verbal minority in our pilot group. I know the direction the Merger comittee was headed. I talked to them personally. What they told me and what they did are two completely different things. So what changed it? The MEC.

What I want is probably impossible. I want my old job back...the one I used to enjoy. This one is full of anxiety, and hatred and hard feelings. The NIC, if it is ever implemented will, IMO, break the camels back. DOH in it's purest form would do the same thing. You say I want a do over now that my fortunes improved? The NIC didn't hurt me personally to any degree. But it will hurt many of my friends and I honestly feel it will harm the airline. Even if you win, you will ultimately lose unless you remain isolated in PHX. This thing has gone on too long...the award is outdated.

You also asked in another post if I thought there was a venue to put the fairness of the NIC on trial against the present paradigm. No, I don't believe there is, but I can still want it! 😀

An East poster said he couldn't figure me out because I seem inconsistent in my opinions. I imagine that is true. I read things for myself. I judge things for myself and call them like I see them. I read the NIC cover to cover when it came out and my judgment was that it was punitive and prejudicial because we ticked NIC off and mishandled the process. That was our fault, no doubt, but what NIC did was short sighted and petty. But what about now? What happens going forward if one side or the other wins? I don't see any good coming from it. IMO, the only way we could prosper is to start from scratch. But we won't because guys in your court are committed to the NIC and guys over here are committed to DOH. Save the legal mumbo jumbo and "we don't have anyone that represents West". AOL is the closest thing I've ever seen to a labor union without being one. Collectively, we could do anything we wanted.

When pilots have to buy tickets on their own airline to travel because they can't count on being given the jumpseat, things are bad...REALLY bad. And I feel they will get worse.

Driver B)

Good post.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-06/travel/airline.industry.outlook_1_profit-forecast-airline-costs-political-unrest?_s=PM:TRAVEL OUCH!