US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mikey60]

Naw i'm gonna enjoy the EAST attrition when the DJ is handed down and the company says we have no choice but the NIC going fwd.. This is something that I once never wanted but since you all have cost me money and you are so big in to recouping then that will be my recoupment at YOUR and oldie's expense. Remember what your responses will be when I say to you, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!!!

AWA320

I know what my responce will be '" the CAPTAIN calls for the checklist on my airplane boy and thats not you"

 

[sumadarson]

This is just what the doctor ordered. You dont mind if I copy your comment for court now do you?? This is the usapa play and by your very own admission you have just stated plainly that it is the intent of usapa to breach our agreement/contract. The only thing that will make this any better is for you to be a BPR member however its not at all necessary as it can be shown that thru your involvement with usapa you learned this. THANK YOU Underpants this is golden right here.

AWA320

Sad to watch you flop around like a fish out of water. You are out of touch. Where is the Army of Leonidas update? How did the meet with your losing attorney's go? I heard the badge backer contributions are only a trickle now.

175 pilots furloughed for two years, 2 million dollars spent by your group to guarantee a dismissal in the companies declaratory frivolous suit. Your pilots will end up back with MESA soon when the company completes a corporate transaction. Time to get over it and move on for an industry leading contract. DOH with conditions and restrictions, you get to keep more than you brought.

 

[exB717Flyer]

You truly are clueless if after all this time you continue to believe this dribble.

Oh, goody, another angry East FO joins the fun. I believe you meant to write "drivel" instead of "dribble". Try typing when you're not so angry and/or inebriated. And...

Personally, I believe it to be a mute point anyway...

A "mute" point, indeed. Much more effective than a moot point.

 

[sumadarson]

In language MM will understand, your 2-watt thinking couldn't be more wrong...

Jim

Can you elaborate please. Empire pilots were stapled on the bottom of the list of the airline you worked for, your response to my previous post smells of evasion and coming to terms with your actions vs your words.

What did you do to stop the staple at that time? Imperialism comes to mind.

 

[AWA320]

Sad to watch you flop around like a fish out of water. You are out of touch. Where is the Army of Leonidas update? How did the meet with your losing attorney's go? I heard the badge backer contributions are only a trickle now.

175 pilots furloughed for two years, 2 million dollars spent by your group to guarantee a dismissal in the companies declaratory frivolous suit. Your pilots will end up back with MESA soon when the company completes a corporate transaction. Time to get over it and move on for an industry leading contract. DOH with conditions and restrictions, you get to keep more than you brought.

Stupid is as stupid does I guess. I dont know anything about what you are talking. I hope for your sake that you are not of the opinion that you actually won somethng with regards to Addington. Ripeness is fluid son and a DOH push is all the ripeness they need. I for one want the east get on with it because it makes the DFR case so much easier. The breach of contract is where you lost LCC's help. Just stop acting so childish and honor your agreements. Why must the east turn everything into a broadway production??? Its gonna be the NIC that much you can bank on cause you cant get out of that breach. Try and try you can but lose you will and then look out because the wagon train will be moving east. Yup coming to Phl or Clt to take that upgrade that you are your brothers thought you could steal!! Get ready. Now like I said before, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!???

AWA320

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Stupid is as stupid does I guess. I dont know anything about what you are talking. I hope for your sake that you are not of the opinion that you actually won somethng with regards to Addington. Ripeness is fluid son and a DOH push is all the ripeness they need. I for one want the east get on with it because it makes the DFR case so much easier. The breach of contract is where you lost LCC's help. Just stop acting so childish and honor your agreements. Why must the east turn everything into a broadway production??? Its gonna be the NIC that much you can bank on cause you cant get out of that breach. Try and try you can but lose you will and then look out because the wagon train will be moving east. Yup coming to Phl or Clt to take that upgrade that you are your brothers thought you could steal!! Get ready. Now like I said before, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!???

AWA320

C'MON and like before ," GO AHEAD I AM READY FOR IT!"( my next statement will be" Hold the checklist at........") MM! PS Looks like you lost ALPA's help too!

 

[East Hole]

The Transition Agreement was never meant to be used on a long term, nor devisive basis. We should all prosper equally moving forward. The hang-up is the East using their majority to avoid the implementation of the Nicolau Award. And we ALL will continue to stagnate until you 'get over' it and move on. I am not saying its easy for you. But its been settled using a neutral third party arbitrator.

It is true that the East will get a bigger increase in their pay proportionate to the West. How long will it take? It's up to you. IF you enjoy your low wages on principle, then dont complain to anyone about the predicament that you continue to put yourself in. A 3% raise for the West is pitiful. Considering that Spirit, Airtran, Allegiant, JetBlue make more than the West and WAY MORE than the East, 3% wont cut it.

When you are ready for a raise, tell the thugs running the East union called USAPA, to put up a contract to vote on. The company is ready. I am willing to bet that a contract that includes the Nicolau Award will pass on first try. There are many East pilots who would vote for it. Your thugs running the union are afraid of this.

USAPA = Al Qaeda

Pass on first try. Come on man are you that out of touch!!!!!!

 

[sumadarson]

Stupid is as stupid does I guess. I dont know anything about what you are talking. I hope for your sake that you are not of the opinion that you actually won somethng with regards to Addington. Ripeness is fluid son and a DOH push is all the ripeness they need. I for one want the east get on with it because it makes the DFR case so much easier. The breach of contract is where you lost LCC's help. Just stop acting so childish and honor your agreements. Why must the east turn everything into a broadway production??? Its gonna be the NIC that much you can bank on cause you cant get out of that breach. Try and try you can but lose you will and then look out because the wagon train will be moving east. Yup coming to Phl or Clt to take that upgrade that you are your brothers thought you could steal!! Get ready. Now like I said before, BEFORE START CHECKLIST!!???

AWA320

Your dfr 2 promise that you try to keep badge backers with is old and tired. You can and will sue for DFR 2 but it will take ten years, instead of playing, you will be suing with yourself eventually.

You forgot to address the issues I brought up in my previous post by the way.

 

[East Hole]

There should not be a East Pilot or a West Pilot. It's US Airways Pilots. USAPA, the devisive force between the groups is preventing ALL of us from gaining at the "new" company. Those who support the endeavors of this devisive group are only hurting themselves. Especially when it comes to fighting over a senoirity list that was decided upon by a neutral thrid party arbitrator. Mutually agreed upon by both East and West.


USAPA = Keeping your wages low.

Wow how many years were you in ALPA I was for over twenty years and i cannot think of one thing they did for me except to put me behind a new hire at the time of the merger. The sad thing is you do not understand ALPA was the devisive force that caused all this......Because of ALPA there will never be one group of pilots at the scum airline......

 

[Pi brat]

No I do not feel those are West routes, but I do kind of like the long CLT layovers, not my favorite, but far better than some. I hear you folks no longer stay in Tempe, I know that hotel was bad, but I would think better location than downtown Phoenix.

I am not trying to avoid anything. Maybe you missed the concept of what I am saying, I will try to elaborate.

I am saying that, First, because of the relative amounts of flying done by both sides,(the east does much more flying than the West), that when put into percentages, it gives this aparent huge disparity, that is in reality non-existent. Also, there was never any mention of how this was measured. Was it in block hours, individual flights, seat miles, what?

This whole thing is a wash when it comes down to it. The West is flying stuff we never did before, and so is the east. What is the big deal? The TA calls for min block, we get ours, you get yours, how when and why, deteremined by marketing.

You can quote all the individual legs you want, there are counter parts that the east is doing. Cabo turns from PHX etc, the other night I arrive in PHX late in the evening surprised to see there is an entire bank of east airplanes leaving for ORD, CLT, LAX, and I think SAN, was that a one time deal because of the holiday weekend, or are you hubbing east crews in PHX?

The point is, this is a complete non-issue. Nobody is taking from the east, you do not have any rights to the flying other than the fleet min TA guarantees.

Hey Nic,

How is that east bid analysis coming? You know, the one you were going to do to support your claim of east returning furloughee's "stealing" west jobs. Been waiting..............

Can you talk to your friend AWA320 about integrity and his avatar? I think you guys served together, didn't you?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hence, in accordance with the TA-9 Opinion, the fence would apply for recalls. Section II.B. 10. only applies if the Company seeks to hire new pilots while there are West pilots on furlough.
CONCLUSION
The Company offering recall to new hire East pilots who are already on the East seniority list, before offering recall to those east positions to pre-merger West pilots on furlough, does not violate the Collective Bargaining Agreement/Transition Agreement. If after the Company offers recall to the new hire East pilots, there are still positions available, then the Company would, at that point, pursuant to Section II. B. 10., be required to offer those positions to West pilots before hiring any new pilots. JIM, I didn't come up with it TA-9 , enjoy your honorary position of the 40Watt club! HAPPY HOLIDAY's JIM!

Heck it deserved another look! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

My congrats to all who get that pay bump in MARCH E-190 especially! MM Today the Company will publish Permanent Base Bid 11-01 for the east pilots. A copy is attached, and will be posted tomorrow on the USAPA web site in the Scheduling Library (regretfully we are having technical issues delaying the upload). It is a one month bid for March and it will open today and close December 5, 2010 @ 23:30 Eastern. The primary bid drivers are:

Increase 76I staffing and lines in support of seasonal utilization
Increase CLT AB Captain and F/O lines in support of block
Increase CLT 737 staffing to support block
Recall of 40 pilots from furlough
There is a potential for a lot of movement off the 190 so if you are a 190 F/O desiring to move off please make sure you bid the equipment and base you desire before your 190 bid.

Be advised that the Company may assign training at any time following the closing of this bid in accordance with Section 24(F).

Please review the Permanent Bid Booklet we sent you previously to help you bid correctly. There is also a copy on the USAPA web site (Scheduling Committee library) if you need another copy. If you have any questions on this bid, or on how to bid, please contact one of the Bid Closing Specialists listed in the Committee Yellow Pages.

Thank you

So did this one! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hey Nic,

How is that east bid analysis coming? You know, the one you were going to do to support your claim of east returning furloughee's "stealing" west jobs. Been waiting..............

Can you talk to your friend AWA320 about integrity and his avatar? I think you guys served together, didn't you?

He might be busy trying to collect funds for the latest court appearance AOL will be making, alot of sideline fallout on this one! ! "HOLD THE CHECKLIST AWA! MM! Filed 11-24-2010, alot of pages litigation costs! I am sure this was never considered at the meet and greet!

 

[mikey60]

Wow how many years were you in ALPA I was for over twenty years and i cannot think of one thing they did for me except to put me behind a new hire at the time of the merger. The sad thing is you do not understand ALPA was the devisive force that caused all this......Because of ALPA there will never be one group of pilots at the scum airline......

now now, dont forget the magazine that we all loved. My stack must be 10 feet tall, I would like to send it to

the boys on the S.S. Minnow while they are waiting to get hired by mesa.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Really?

What "law" is this?

Under labor law, management and unions are required to negotiate and bargain in good faith, but not necessarily to reach an agreement. (Hence strikes and lockouts.)

(ETA: Oops, I see 700UW beat me in making this point.)

Well then you both need to think it all the way through then. Self help simply ends the status quo period. Self help only temporarily relieves the company of the requirement to maintain the status quo contract terms not the requirement to bargain to reach an agreement.

At what point after an agreement becomes amendable can the company stop or refuse to negotiate in good faith to reach an agreement?.......They can't.

The proof is obvious. Airline managements always (even after self help) eventually reach contract agreements with union represented labor groups because they are required to by law.

underpants