US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

USAPA inherited an unimplemented document, and must keep it that way. It must stay as they received it.

Like the unimplemented pay restoration in LOA 93???

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Just like all the UAL merge stuff you put out. None of it true.

Like ever prediction you've made on the board?

 

[cleardirect]

Just like all the UAL merge stuff you put out. None of it true. Silver is not the final and binding entity. Just like Wake, if she tries to tell a union how to conduct an internal dispute, she will get teed up by the 9th. USAPA is doing a GREAT job. Just wait till there is some good pension news and the Kasher decision. You are going to love what Cleary does for us! 😀 😀

So judge Silver is now just a stepping stone to a final answer? What is it going to take for you guys? The supreme court to shove this up your tailpipes? This is not an internal dispute. This is the company and the pilots. This is the company asking a contract question.

Good pension news. Really? Did you know that the pension case got kicked? The judge decided that it was not worth his time so he handed it to a magistrate. What, you say usapa did not tell you that little bit of news?

It is this 7th day of June, 2011 hereby

ORDERED that the Motion to Compel filed by plaintiff US Airline Pilots Association on May 5, 2011 [#51] is hereby referred to a United States Magistrate Judge for her or his determination pursuant to LCvR 72.2(a). Henceforth, and until this referral is terminated, all filings related to this motion shall include the initials of the magistrate judge, once assigned by the clerk’s office, in the caption next to the initials of the undersigned judge. See LCvR 5.1(f).

Henry H. Kennedy, Jr.
United States District Judge

Cleary is not the final authority. I would say watch what Cleary does TO you not what he does FOR you.

 

[mrbreeze]

IMHO. I think things are getting out of Parker's control, as far as the pilot group. He witnessed first hand, the anger of the West pilots, while the East pilots are "acting up". Also, since there was communication from Kasher that the LOA 93 will have an answer in the next couple of months, Dougie is not so sure he is going to win this one.

So....Seabury Group calls in their best gunslinger, Jerry Glass, to thump heads again. However, it will be different this time. As new as USAPA is, we will not have the back stabbers of ALPA National on our backs. Now we can address issues without the confusion as to whether ALPA is going to stand behind us, or stand behind us with their pants around their ankles.

If we win LOA 93, it will be a huge boost for this whole pilot group, regardless of how the SLI works out in the future. Obviously, negotiations will pick up with the company wanting to trade payroll for vacation, sick leave, reserve, retirement, etc.

I hope you guys can see that out West......we can work on SLI later during the negotiations.

breeze

 

[Black Swan]

So judge Silver is now just a stepping stone to a final answer? What is it going to take for you guys? The supreme court to shove this up your tailpipes? This is not an internal dispute. This is the company and the pilots. This is the company asking a contract question.

Good pension news. Really? Did you know that the pension case got kicked? The judge decided that it was not worth his time so he handed it to a magistrate. What, you say usapa did not tell you that little bit of news?



Cleary is not the final authority. I would say watch what Cleary does TO you not what he does FOR you.

Here is what it takes Mr. Clear: I really don't care if Judge Silver tries to impose the Nic. She can impose till her heart is content. What she is not going to do, and never is going to do, is interfere in an internal union dispute. And if she tries? You tell me what happened when the esteemed Judge Neil V Wake tried to do it? He got his hand slapped by the good clerks in San Fran. You know, the ones who actually make law a practice, not a HOBBY. So believe all you want in that Arizona labor fairy tale you keep pumping good money after bad into. So we are going to just kick back, and actually hope she has the stones to do it. Because it will just take that much more of your money to take it to where it went last time. Pray tell what is different this time? Nothing. Nothing at all. It does not have to be the Nic. They said it. You just can't stop re-writing what they said to suit your fantasy lottery. Mike Cleary is doing a fantastic job. We are behind him 1000%

 

[Black Swan]

IMHO. I think things are getting out of Parker's control, as far as the pilot group. He witnessed first hand, the anger of the West pilots, while the East pilots are "acting up". Also, since there was communication from Kasher that the LOA 93 will have an answer in the next couple of months, Dougie is not so sure he is going to win this one.

So....Seabury Group calls in their best gunslinger, Jerry Glass, to thump heads again. However, it will be different this time. As new as USAPA is, we will not have the back stabbers of ALPA National on our backs. Now we can address issues without the confusion as to whether ALPA is going to stand behind us, or stand behind us with their pants around their ankles.

If we win LOA 93, it will be a huge boost for this pilot whole group, regardless of how the SLI works out in the future. Obviously, negotiations will pick up with the company wanting to trade payroll for vacation, sick leave, reserve, retirement, etc.

I hope you guys can see that out West......we can work on SLI later during the negotiations.

breeze

Glass is back to try and pick up the pieces. Wait till the LOA 93 win if it comes. Parker will need all the help he can get. The wheels are coming off this thing, east and west. You saw that crew news. The west pilots are absolutely going insane with Parker. You saw the angry woman, with the kid. Then the angry rain coat guy. If I didn't know better, I would swear that was Bam Margera in the back filming Jackass 4.

 

[mrbreeze]

Response to Freebird:

"The West sees the big picture here. It's the East who chooses to chase its tail and support a losing cause. Are you hoping to cash a lottery ticket by returning from furlough? How many years on property did you have before furlough? 1-2? 2"


It's a bit more complicated than that Freebird. I was a Captain when 9/11 happened and the company parked 101 of our 429 jets, furloughing almost 2000 pilots. I was bumped from Cpt to FO overnight. I hope you never have to experience the changes that brings to your family. Not looking for sympathy, just a fact.

Yes, in my case, it's worth the fight to forgo a few years of LOA 93 wages in order to RETAIN my seniority and at least see how Kasher rules. If Kasher rules against us, then I have to consider my options. Earlier than planned retirement will sound good at that point because this job sucks so bad that it isn't what it used to be and really not worth my time spent on the road. There are better things in life.

To answer your question, I am in my 25th yr and have never been furloughed. So, yes, I am your nightmare......a 25 yr FO (by choice), and have my own perspective on things.

breeze

 

[Black Swan]

Judge Silver clearly addressed and articulated why the declaratory judgment lawsuit is "ripe". This is the end game and the seniority integration will be decided by Judge Silver. I suspect Leonidas or more likely USAPA will appeal Judge Silver's decision; however, this time the case will be "ripe" because of the harm that could be caused to US Airways (per the Judge's Order denying USAPA's motion to dismiss).

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Oh sure Chippy. Just like Wake did! This is so funny!. One question: What happened the last time an Arizona Judge tried to "decide" this case? ::Answer: a bunch of 30 something clerks in SF SPANKED!

 

[Missfit]

With the latest SAFO...looks like the FAA is "On Board" too.

 

[nic4us]

Just like all the UAL merge stuff you put out. None of it true. Silver is not the final and binding entity. Just like Wake, if she tries to tell a union how to conduct an internal dispute, she will get teed up by the 9th. USAPA is doing a GREAT job. Just wait till there is some good pension news and the Kasher decision. You are going to love what Cleary does for us! 😀 😀

9,

The company's DJ is not asking what usapa has to do, and Silver is not going to tell usapa what to do.

What we are going to learn from Silver is whether or not the company can be held liable with usapa when the "unquestionably ripe DFR" verdict finally materializes.

If the answere is ..well yes they can...it is called a hybrid DFR..has happened before..and would definitely happen again if the company and usapa pass a DOH contract.

Then the company will have to decide which is worse, losing hundreds of millions to West pilots, or firing dozens of disgruntled idiots who take out their frustrations on the corporation that kept them from the unemployment line for the last 6 years.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So judge Silver is now just a stepping stone to a final answer? What is it going to take for you guys? The supreme court to shove this up your tailpipes? This is not an internal dispute. This is the company and the pilots. This is the company asking a contract question.

Good pension news. Really? Did you know that the pension case got kicked? The judge decided that it was not worth his time so he handed it to a magistrate. What, you say usapa did not tell you that little bit of news?



Cleary is not the final authority. I would say watch what Cleary does TO you not what he does FOR you.

He handed it to a MAGISTRATE to manage the cases discovery! Which is volumes! Where do you dream this cr@# up!

 

[SparrowHawk]

He handed it to a MAGISTRATE to manage the cases discovery! Which is volumes! Where do you dream this cr@# up!

Discovery proceedings can and likely are in this case very complex.

They often take weeks/months to determine what type of information will be allowed as part of discovery.

Then you have to compile all of the information and organize it so it can be used in court. This can take fully a year to complete depending upon the size and scope of discovery.

I've seen PALLETS of evidence wheeled into court on a pallet jack one for each side. Now it's electronic and counsel has laptops with the information.

No federal judge is going to supervise discovery personally so the task will be delegated to a Federal Magistrate.

 

[cleardirect]

Discovery proceedings can and likely are in this case very complex.

They often take weeks/months to determine what type of information will be allowed as part of discovery.

Then you have to compile all of the information and organize it so it can be used in court. This can take fully a year to complete depending upon the size and scope of discovery.

I've seen PALLETS of evidence wheeled into court on a pallet jack one for each side. Now it's electronic and counsel has laptops with the information.

No federal judge is going to supervise discovery personally so the task will be delegated to a Federal Magistrate.

Discovery is complete. The deadline was middle of June. It was the third extension requested by usapa. Summary judgment is the next step. Most of the discovery was depositions from the PBGC by usapa.

 

[cleardirect]

He handed it to a MAGISTRATE to manage the cases discovery! Which is volumes! Where do you dream this cr@# up!

Discovery is complete. There is nothing to manage. Why don't you pay attention to this cr@#?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Discovery is complete. The deadline was middle of June. It was the third extension requested by usapa. Summary judgment is the next step. Most of the discovery was depositions from the PBGC by usapa.

Extensions are commonplace as well. I wouldn't read anything into it. I don't which case you're even referring to. My goal was to clarify how Discovery works. I don't follow the ins and out of this 2100+ page saga except to preach unity. I have picked up some stuff but my knowledge is a mile wide and an inch deep.