US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

The problem with advanced generation wings like those on the 330, 380 and 787 is that those aircraft are going to be flying out of airports designed for 20th century aircraft and need to be revamped. I just got back from St. Marten again yesterday and the ramp congestion around the C and D concourses are very difficult to negotiate around with the mix of aircraft from commuter to 330 sizes competing for space. Couple that with the inexperience or lack of training given to the ramp tower personal and you get what you have now.

Unfortunately the Charlotte ramp and concourse design needs a revamp. We'll see.

It's also unfortunate that a few pilots will criticize those in the same profession to advance childish agendas over genuine safety concerns. It's no surprise on this forum and I fully expect the jabs and barbs to fly my way. I wonder why this seems to be the only airline where the pilots consider privilege over principle a god given right.

Good luck and fire away!

So now it is the design of the airports fault that east pilots crash into things. Are you guys new to flying 330's? Did the airport change configuration in the last 6 months? So it really is a BS excuse to blame the airport configuration and congestion on poor airmanship skills or that NOW you guys think you need to be "safe" If that is the case were you all unsafe for all of these years before your silly campaign? Nothing has changed but your feeble attempt to find leverage where you have none.

You may want to talk to your fellow pilots about criticizing the commuter pilots for the way they operate. Or do you not consider commuter pilots to be pilots but some lesser being?

 

[luvthe9]

I've got to tell you son that all that hate is going to eat you up. Leonidas is the organization that is simply keeping you from cashing your date of hire lottery ticket. The courts will finish this soon enough. Delay is all you have achieved (oh and the loss of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS). Have a great dat.

Just to be clear I don't need a lottery ticket, I'm senior to your whole airline by several years son. I just hate to see how AOL has hurt you guys and yes it will probably be over soon for you. What a shame you could have shared in our growth.

 

[Pi brat]

Wasn't the last collision in CLT an East 330 that came whipping around a corner and smacking a 321 damaging it? Perhaps the mighty 330 is too much airplane for some.

I believe that incident was described by the captain in safety vector and it didn't happen that way. Has there ever been a west pilot that made a mistake?

I was told that one of the reasons for the safety survey was to show management that we don't live in a vacuum and that the seniority fight and it's dragging out of a contract do provide distraction. Wouldn't you west guys slinging poo agree? Wouldn't you have liked for Doug to say "This is a distraction, we need to move on, and the method of doing that is to use the Nic award and finish a contract." We disagree on the method, but I think we can all see we would be better off with that distraction removed.

Has anyone noticed the high rate of error on the Eagle arrival into PHX? Could there be any distraction cause those TOD points to be missed?

I've said it before and I will say it again. I do not support using safety in anyway to gain leverage in anything, but it is just as bad for the company and the west to to ignore USAPA safety because a few may be doing that.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I believe that incident was described by the captain in safety vector and it didn't happen that way. Has there ever been a west pilot that made a mistake?

I was told that one of the reasons for the safety survey was to show management that we don't live in a vacuum and that the seniority fight and it's dragging out of a contract do provide distraction. Wouldn't you west guys slinging poo agree? Wouldn't you have liked for Doug to say "This is a distraction, we need to move on, and the method of doing that is to use the Nic award and finish a contract." We disagree on the method, but I think we can all see we would be better off with that distraction removed.

Has anyone noticed the high rate of error on the Eagle arrival into PHX? Could there be any distraction cause those TOD points to be missed?

I've said it before and I will say it again. I do not support using safety in anyway to gain leverage in anything, but it is just as bad for the company and the west to to ignore USAPA safety because a few may be doing that.

What specifically has USAPA done in the course of the past three years that would earn the trust of west pilots or Management to think that there is any issue where they can be believed at their word or to not have an ulterior motive related to getting a DOH in violation of the TA?

 

[Pi brat]

How about poor judgement, haste, poor airmanship?

How about that Eagul arrival into PHX. Something is causing a lot of guys to screw it up. What is it? poor judgement, haste, poor airmanship?

Haste is one of the things the safety committee is trying to point out to ALL of us. There are more distractions and pressures today. What does the TEM guide tell us when we get loaded up?

By throwing stuff like this around you and guys like you are building up a debt that will be unloaded on a west pilot that makes a mistake. Why don't we all stop throwing stones in this department? It's not like we don't have enough to pitch in the other one.

 

[Pi brat]

What specifically has USAPA done in the course of the past three years that would earn the trust of west pilots or Management to think that there is any issue where they can be believed at their word or to not have an ulterior motive related to getting a DOH in violation of the TA?

CG,

You may not be a member of USAPA, but I am and many west pilots are. 99.99% of us have been the ones actually doing the work and bearing the load of company and union decisions and delivering a safe, and mostly on time product. That the biggie. Other ones I can think of are:

-participating in the 1549 investigation
-staffing many committees that have nothing to do with DOH, such as security committee
-pressing for changes to the ASAP program to make it really non-punitive
-the PIC. Whether you think it will do any good or not, it is a huge sore spot for east pilots and it has nothing to do with the Nic

Those are just a few. I know a lot of volunteers that have worked hard for us. What you guys and management need to do is separate the leaders and actions that you don't agree with from the rest of it. I see the mostly the west turning EVERTHING into a Nic vs. DOH battle, not us.

 

[cleardirect]

CG,

You may not be a member of USAPA, but I am and many west pilots are. 99.99% of us have been the ones actually doing the work and bearing the load of company and union decisions and delivering a safe, and mostly on time product. That the biggie. Other ones I can think of are:

-participating in the 1549 investigation
-staffing many committees that have nothing to do with DOH, such as security committee
-pressing for changes to the ASAP program to make it really non-punitive
-the PIC. Whether you think it will do any good or not, it is a huge sore spot for east pilots and it has nothing to do with the Nic

Those are just a few. I know a lot of volunteers that have worked hard for us. What you guys and management need to do is separate the leaders and actions that you don't agree with from the rest of it. I see the mostly the west turning EVERTHING into a Nic vs. DOH battle, not us.

Staffing the security committe has nothing to be with DOH. YET!!!! The BPR voted to throw the single west member off because of AOL and his not supporting DOH. Just like they threw off a west HIMMS member. Does HIMMS have anything to do with DOH? Just like they threw off the single P4P west member.

The PIC does that have anything to do with west pilots? No so it is a use of union resources that only could benefit east pilots.

1549 investigation. How many west pilots are allowed on the accident investigation committee? ASAP! I believe it was usapa that stopped the ASAP program in the beginning leaving all of us exposed until they pulled their heads out.

Everything thing this association does is about or because of DOH. That is the driving force in every decision. When the BPR voted to go to the new office it was Cleary that turned into a DOH fight. I spoke to my rep and he said that Cleary sent an e-mail accusing the BPR members that voted to go to the new place of being against Cleary so they were against the union which meant they were against DOH.

You better check around. It is usapa that makes every decision about DOH not the west.

 

[Black Swan]

Well,

this Leonidas October handout is interesting......and expensive..... to say the least. Im curious...........how did you get my home address?

Are the boys back to work yet? Looks like admin leave is quite a deal......

 

[Black Swan]

Typical east behavior.You guys get information. But instead of learning from it you all instead worry about how it got to you. You guys can not avoid the truth your whole lives.

On here and other sites all I see is complaints that you are trying to be education. But no one has refuted the information.

What will we see from usapa? Some spin campaign telling you all don't look behind the curtain. That the information must be false because it is not what your leaders have been telling you and it sure does not comply with what the crew room rumors say.

Read and understand people. The truth will set you free.

...

 

[Black Swan]

Oh, there is some of that in some parts of the East pilot group. Calls for an investigation, pursuit of invasion of privacy charges, returning the mailing to "them" unopened or conversely keeping it as evidence in any prosecution, USAPA supposedly looking into the source of the address list, charges that the company was the source.

I'm like you - I get plenty of unsolicited mailings but don't waste the time wondering about any "how" or "why". Just consider it the cost of having an address.

Jim

....

 

[cleardirect]

Are the boys back to work yet? Looks like admin leave is quite a deal......

It sure is. How is the usapa investigation going? Anyone in jail like usapa said would happen? Any law enforcement agency beating on their doors? Any law enforcement agency interested in this at all? NO! Could it be that usapa overacted and overstated their case yet again?

When are you guys going to learn?

 

[767one]

So now it is the design of the airports fault that east pilots crash into things. Are you guys new to flying 330's? Did the airport change configuration in the last 6 months? So it really is a BS excuse to blame the airport configuration and congestion on poor airmanship skills or that NOW you guys think you need to be "safe" If that is the case were you all unsafe for all of these years before your silly campaign? Nothing has changed but your feeble attempt to find leverage where you have none.

You may want to talk to your fellow pilots about criticizing the commuter pilots for the way they operate. Or do you not consider commuter pilots to be pilots but some lesser being?

Is an airport design flaw only a safety issue after it causes an accident or incident? For that matter is any safety issue a problem only after it causes an accident or was it an accident waiting to happen? Thats why we have asap/event reports.


Bob

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Wasn't the last collision in CLT an East 330 that came whipping around a corner and smacking a 321 damaging it? Perhaps the mighty 330 is too much airplane for some.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/06/airbus-a380-wing-hits-building-at-paris-airshow/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uogmKMUrbT4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbt30UnzRWw

 

[Black Swan]

It sure is. How is the usapa investigation going? Anyone in jail like usapa said would happen? Any law enforcement agency beating on their doors? Any law enforcement agency interested in this at all? NO! Could it be that usapa overacted and overstated their case yet again?

When are you guys going to learn?

Just asking, after all, it has been a long time. I am sure they had good intentions......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2xxizpHuoo

 

[traderjake]

What a shame you could have shared in our growth.

What a shame we make $125/85 per hour while you pursue your fantasy of rewriting the seniority list.

What a shame you've destroyed any leverage we may have had to get a better contract.