US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

Seriously! You don't know why losing the loa 93 arbitration is going to make a difference?

Unless you already know you lost.

We will wait for Kasher, not you. Some music while you wait............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7sx32alzeE

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Mad man. Where are you numbers? Prove me wrong. Let's really take a look at that attrition you think has value.

Well, just use 2017 and 2022, 5 and 10 years out from commencement of age 65 retirements for the East list.

Of the top 500, 360 or 72% will be gone in 5 years and 500 or 100% in ten years.

Of the top 1000, 600 or 60% will be gone in 5 years and 940 or 94% in ten years.

Of the top half, 775 or 47% will be gone in 5 years and 1410 or 85% will be gone in ten years.

In total 2200 or 67% of their list will be gone by 2022.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

DARIUS IS ACTUALLY YES FOLKS(767JETZ) ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXqJ3A6NWw&feature=related

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Well, just use 2017 and 2022, 5 and 10 years out from commencement of age 65 retirements for the East list.

Of the top 500, 360 or 72% will be gone in 5 years and 500 or 100% in ten years.

Of the top 1000, 600 or 60% will be gone in 5 years and 940 or 94% in ten years.

Of the top half, 775 or 47% will be gone in 5 years and 1410 or 85% will be gone in ten years.

In total 2200 or 67% of their list will be gone by 2022.

CLEAR HEY MAN UP!, cause the numbers don't suit you choose not to refute! MORON, BS artist stop fallin off that chair your brain damaged enough!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Mad man. Where are you numbers? Prove me wrong. Let's really take a look at that attrition you think has value.

Well , we do and we are, "SEPERATE OPS"! VALUE OR YOU WOULDN"T WANT IT SO BAD<, MORON! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Mad man. Where are you numbers? Prove me wrong. Let's really take a look at that attrition you think has value.

Well since you "FAILED TO POST THEM" , thanx you made my point!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

http://bapwild.com/blog/?p=454 EASY READING! MM!

THESE GUYS NAILED ALPA, AOL NEXT!

 

[end_of_alpa]

TIME is not the correct answer. This can easily be demonstrated. For example, how much TIME is required to hold a NB captain position at US, HP, UA, DL, WN, CO, AA, AS or the rest. Is the same amount of TIME required to hold that left seat at each of the above carriers the same and has that TIME requirement been consistent each of the last 30 years? How much TIME is required for a pilot at any of these airlines to get to a WB? When will a US, HP, WN, AS or other pilot be guaranteed an opportunity to fly a B747, a B787, a A340, or an A380? If TIME is the single factor then one should be able to predict with absolute certainty when he will move from the right seat to the left, and when he will move from NB to WB and then from WB to superjumbo, right?

Is that how this TIME= SENIORITY system works or are there factors other than TIME that determine position/status? If other factors go into a person's seniority and thus the seat position that he is able to maintain, then your repeating TIME over and over again reveals an ignorance of the facts.

It's not their time I'm talking about. I'm talking about my time, specifically 24 plus years flying for the same company, no matter how you rationalize it. I have overwhelming agreement from the pilots east of the Mississippi. We won't vote for a reduction in the value of our time in relation to yours. Time is time and no matter how you cut it we won't budge.

This principle has not morphed into the promise that "you can sue me for my vote". Because it's about the vote. You're suing to overcome our right to vote and we see it for the fact it already is. You cant convince us, we won't vote for it unless and until we get a CBA in front of us and if you can sue for a vote and prevail then why have either a union and why have a democratic institution?

No matter which way you cut it you either have a vote or you don't. We want a vote.....PERIOD!

Good luck....well be seeing you in court.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

TIME is not the correct answer. This can easily be demonstrated. For example, how much TIME is required to hold a NB captain position at US, HP, UA, DL, WN, CO, AA, AS or the rest. Is the same amount of TIME required to hold that left seat at each of the above carriers the same and has that TIME requirement been consistent each of the last 30 years? How much TIME is required for a pilot at any of these airlines to get to a WB? When will a US, HP, WN, AS or other pilot be guaranteed an opportunity to fly a B747, a B787, a A340, or an A380? If TIME is the single factor then one should be able to predict with absolute certainty when he will move from the right seat to the left, and when he will move from NB to WB and then from WB to superjumbo, right?

Is that how this TIME= SENIORITY system works or are there factors other than TIME that determine position/status? If other factors go into a person's seniority and thus the seat position that he is able to maintain, then your repeating TIME over and over again reveals an ignorance of the facts.

FACT, AGE 65(FINITE NUMBER IN TIME) = RETIREMENT, FACT, X (RETIRES), Y ADVANCES, = EAST WEST = NADA! WEST=AOL = BS! = IDENTITY THEFT! MM!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Sorry EOA.....leonidas will help usher in thx reality of The Nicolau award. You have bought NOTHING but DELAY, to be followed by MISERY.

Chin up, Sparky. This will be finished in due time.

Back at ya!

Good luck.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Wrong, though time does play a factor.

Who was senior to the #1 US pilot before the SLI date and then after? Answer, no one in both cases.

Who was senior to the last active US pilot before the SLI and then after the SLI? Answer, everyone in both cases.

Now, ask the same questions of the top HP pilot and the bottom HP pilot before and after the SLI integration and you will get a very different answer for the number #1 HP pilot versus the #1 US pilot. However, the two guys that were one position away from furlough before the SLI integration are in nearly identical situations after the SLI integration.

So, the only pilots who lost seniority to pilots who were junior to them prior to the SLI were those on the HP list who held a substantially higher seniority number pre-NIC versus post-NIC implementation. East pilots did not and will not lose any SENIORITY status when the NIC is finally implemented.

These facts about SENIORITY and JUNIORITY are really beyond any dispute.

Well good for you, click you heels and say "TOTO I DON'T THINK WERE IN KANSAS ANYMORE!" MM!

 

[traderjake]

Answer: TIME.

I can prove you're wrong with one example.

If you are the last pilot hired for ten years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?

The answer is no, your seniority has not increased at all in ten years, you are still the Junior Reserve First Officer.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list, that's it's called a seniority number.

 

[traderjake]

I'm talking about my time, specifically 24 plus years flying for the same company, no matter how you rationalize it. I have overwhelming agreement from the pilots east of the Mississippi. We won't vote for a reduction in the value of our time in relation to yours. Time is time and no matter how you cut it we won't budge.

Give that you like giving away half your life for LOA 93 wages you don't place much value on your time

 

[prechilill]

I can prove you're wrong with one example.

If you are the last pilot hired for ten years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?

The answer is no, your seniority has not increased at all in ten years, you are still the Junior Reserve First Officer.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list, that's it's called a seniority number.

Well said, the chump is looking for a free ride... Advance to Go, collect $200... Only exists in Monopoly

 

[nic4us]

Well, just use 2017 and 2022, 5 and 10 years out from commencement of age 65 retirements for the East list.

Of the top 500, 360 or 72% will be gone in 5 years and 500 or 100% in ten years.

Of the top 1000, 600 or 60% will be gone in 5 years and 940 or 94% in ten years.

Of the top half, 775 or 47% will be gone in 5 years and 1410 or 85% will be gone in ten years.

In total 2200 or 67% of their list will be gone by 2022.

Man...do you have slow attrition from the top.

I just went through the top 20 AW pilots, and 17 out of 20 or 85% are gone by 2017. All are gone way before 2022.

I am not going to waste my time going through the entire list, but by 2022 I would venture to guess over 35% of the West list is gone, and 50% of those remaining will be over 60.

The point is you are talking to people who do not give a darn, we will be gone also, and the east attrition is completely meaningless to the vast majority of the 800 West captains who are already senior to 50% of your attrition.