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Come on angry FO. Post the numbers stand alone and post the numbers combined using the Nicolau ratio. Use the number to prove me wrong. Calling BS does not prove it. It only proves that you don't know what you are talking about and you don't know that facts.
Chalk MM up with luvthe9, BlackSwan, and the missing-in-action sumadarson. None of them can counter any argument with fact or even a well reasoned response. Just varying levels of snide comments and attacks and redirecting the conversation.
 
That was over 30 yrs ago when DOH was the gold standard, the problem lies when UAL wanted to chage that for thier benefit. You might have been in grade school when all this was going on I don't know.
You can repeat the lie over and over again. Doesn't matter how many times you utter the words. It doesn't make it true. Not everyone is stupid enough to believe something as fact just because you, or Cleary, or anyone else says it's so.

When are you going to provide even the slightest hint of proof that UA wanted it changed for our benefit? Care to show your work, or continue to hide behind you're lie. Once everyone knows your lie, guess what it makes you look like when you keep repeating it?

And so you joined USAir (Piedmont, Shuttle, whatever) 30 years ago. But how long has ALPA merger policy excluded DOH as the exclusive SLI method? If you saw the writing on the wall, why didn't you move on to greener pastures?

I considered bailing out of UA and going to CO when they hired last... I think it was '05. If I had, I'd be right where I am now... a 757/767 f/o. I weighed the risks and decided to stay. Should I cry in my cheerios like you if I end up next to 2005 hires who brings the same job as me? I think not. Am I entitled to a 737 captain seat or a 757 captain seat just because of my DOH? NO. I made my choices and I have to live with them. We had a senior UA A320 captain who bailed out during the bankruptcy and went to B6. Now that BK is behind us and the future is brighter, she was begging for her job back. ALPA told her sorry, too bad, so sad. She resigned her seniority voluntarily. If we change unions can she claim her original DOH back at UA?
 
Second. The "so-called" card drive over here, I don't see it. The pilots here see USAPA as PILOTS and not separate from the rank and file. USAPA is run by line pilots, and if West pilots don't want to participate that is your choice. Some are, to be sure, and I welcome them for it. I just sent an e-mail to Del thanking him for his participation....much needed participation, BTW.

I hope you guys don't give him a blanket party.

Good Luck.

EOA;
Sorry to dissapoint you, but I was a USAPA volunteer. I was summarily asked to resign because of my support for Leonidas. I was then fired by El Presidente via Minister of Mis-information Theur ("that's Sewer with a lisp").

USAPA's most IMPORTANT committees are ALL led by EAST pilots ONLY. That is a cold hard FACT. USAPA needs to be overhauled and upgraded (I really would prefer that over ALPA).

CB
 
EOA;
Sorry to dissapoint you, but I was a USAPA volunteer. I was summarily asked to resign because of my support for Leonidas. I was then fired by El Presidente via Minister of Mis-information Theur ("that's Sewer with a lisp").

USAPA's most IMPORTANT committees are ALL led by EAST pilots ONLY. That is a cold hard FACT. USAPA needs to be overhauled and upgraded (I really would prefer that over ALPA).

CB
Good. When you get rid of Leonidas you can come back....until then, continue to be left out in the cold.

I like who we have now, so....until then,
Good luck.
 
Mikey;
If you took time to read my post, I essentially said that the KP (company's opener - as far as I am concerned) was still on the table. I also said that I would not vote for it (I too consider it an INSULT).

I insinuated that if we as a group accepted the Nicolau as THE seniority list (as opposed to decades of legal battles, only to have the Nicolau award forced on you), we could staff our NAC committee with EXPERIENCED negotiators.

Here is a taste of what we should shoot for (these are Captain 12+ year rates):
American: NB= $161-$166; WB= $174-$205
Delta: NB= $168-$174; WB= $205-$217
Hawaiian: NB=$162; WB= $190
Southwest: NB=$198
Alaska: NB= $154
Alegiant: NB=$153
Spirit: NB=$152
JetBlue: NB=$159 Embraer: $143 (source is http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/)

Here's the rub: If we vote to change the USAPA constitution to show the Nicolau award as the basis of seniortiy for the New US Airways, then we can move on. If you were to argue that all we need to do is negotiate away from the Nicolau.....No Can Do. There is no group, person or entitiy that has the authority, right or inclination to do that task.

Do you wait and see if Kasher brings you the cash? Do you keep letting Cleary overspend our union budget without ANY KIND OF RESTRAINT? Do you keep letting the junior, inexperienced minority hold our group hostage?

Our NAC is presently NEGOTIATING AWAY (the wrong direction, in case you weren't keeping up) from a current offer (albiet one that includes the Nicolau as the seniority list).

If you have come to the conclusion that the Nicolau will be the seniority list, and USAPA is only buying delay (with you union dues).....visit us at www.reformusapa.com.

There are three petitions that you should read. Two of which you should have NO trouble signing and sending in (even if you haven't come to the conclusion that the Nicolau award will be the final seniority list).
You are wrong and we WILL prevail on this...no vote, no Nicolau. We proved it already and were prepared to take even more legal steps against the company to prove it.

Guess what, you'll just have to wait and see.

Reform usapa is a waste of time and effort and you just keep pounding that drum. I make every effort to refrain from using the "n" word but in this case....NEVER would be the most appropriate answer.

Good luck in PHX. One week away from A320 school. I'm requesting my sim to be in PHX. Let's see the sparks fly now.

Good luck and look for me in training.
 
You guys sure are consistent with your blame game. Ever notice how EVERYTHING you hate most about your career is the fault of the United pilots. Then you wonder why a UA pilot has any interest in what's being said on this forum.

So now we have the two most recently notorious poster, sending inflammatory PM's and grandiose, unsubstantiated claims, while patting each other on the back for being such masters of the "truth." Yet neither of you can come up with valid responses when proven wrong or when your so called facts are questioned. Just name calling and insults... the sign of a beaten opponent.

Just because you read something on a wailing wall or bathroom stall, or hear it repeated ad nauseam in the cockpit doesn't make it accurate. So once and for all, show us all exactly where UA pilots were responsible for removing DOH from ALPA's merger policy. Should be easy enough since you always bring it up. Tell us when, the process that occurred, who voted for what, and how the result came to be.

Or could it be that a democratic process occurred, majority ruled (a concept you only seem to understand and support when YOU are the majority), and the outcome was something you now find unfair due to your personal situation and want to avoid? Show us the facts. How many years did you live with the new merger policy without so much as an attempt to influence it, or a peep from any of you as to how "unfair" it is. Could it be that you really have no idea how it came to be, but are too embarrassed to admit it? Let's see how honest you can be. I already know the real answer. Why not show the rest of the community here how much you REALLY know.

And btw, ALPA never killed DOH or prevented it from being used. It was taken out as the sole criteria so that each merger would turn on it's own merit. The fact that not one pilot SLI in recent history has used DOH, and now federal law mirrors ALPA merger policy with the Mc Caskill bill, is a testament to it's validity.

But have at it, and prove me wrong.
We don't hate United pilots....you do enough of that to yourselves.
 
You can repeat the lie over and over again. Doesn't matter how many times you utter the words. It doesn't make it true. Not everyone is stupid enough to believe something as fact just because you, or Cleary, or anyone else says it's so.

When are you going to provide even the slightest hint of proof that UA wanted it changed for our benefit? Care to show your work, or continue to hide behind you're lie. Once everyone knows your lie, guess what it makes you look like when you keep repeating it?

And so you joined USAir (Piedmont, Shuttle, whatever) 30 years ago. But how long has ALPA merger policy excluded DOH as the exclusive SLI method? If you saw the writing on the wall, why didn't you move on to greener pastures?

I considered bailing out of UA and going to CO when they hired last... I think it was '05. If I had, I'd be right where I am now... a 757/767 f/o. I weighed the risks and decided to stay. Should I cry in my cheerios like you if I end up next to 2005 hires who brings the same job as me? I think not. Am I entitled to a 737 captain seat or a 757 captain seat just because of my DOH? NO. I made my choices and I have to live with them. We had a senior UA A320 captain who bailed out during the bankruptcy and went to B6. Now that BK is behind us and the future is brighter, she was begging for her job back. ALPA told her sorry, too bad, so sad. She resigned her seniority voluntarily. If we change unions can she claim her original DOH back at UA?

Hey moron that ain't the test......the test is what would you do if you found yourself next to a new hire.....
......as in JUNIOR TO......with hundreds more just like him/her......SENIOR TO YOU........JATFQ

NICDOA
NPJB
 
Hey moron that ain't the test......the test is what would you do if you found yourself next to a new hire.....
......as in JUNIOR TO......with hundreds more just like him/her......SENIOR TO YOU........JATFQ

NICDOA
NPJB
You got the moron part right. Don't waste your time on him.
 
Hey moron that ain't the test......the test is what would you do if you found yourself next to a new hire.....
......as in JUNIOR TO......with hundreds more just like him/her......SENIOR TO YOU........JATFQ

NICDOA
NPJB
Perhaps you need remedial instruction in what the terms JUNIOR and SENIOR actually mean.
 
Answer: TIME.

Good luck.
Wrong, though time does play a factor.

Who was senior to the #1 US pilot before the SLI date and then after? Answer, no one in both cases.

Who was senior to the last active US pilot before the SLI and then after the SLI? Answer, everyone in both cases.

Now, ask the same questions of the top HP pilot and the bottom HP pilot before and after the SLI integration and you will get a very different answer for the number #1 HP pilot versus the #1 US pilot. However, the two guys that were one position away from furlough before the SLI integration are in nearly identical situations after the SLI integration.

So, the only pilots who lost seniority to pilots who were junior to them prior to the SLI were those on the HP list who held a substantially higher seniority number pre-NIC versus post-NIC implementation. East pilots did not and will not lose any SENIORITY status when the NIC is finally implemented.

These facts about SENIORITY and JUNIORITY are really beyond any dispute.
 
Wrong, though time does play a factor.

Who was senior to the #1 US pilot before the SLI date and then after? Answer, no one in both cases.

Who was senior to the last active US pilot before the SLI and then after the SLI? Answer, everyone in both cases.

Now, ask the same questions of the top HP pilot and the bottom HP pilot before and after the SLI integration and you will get a very different answer for the number #1 HP pilot versus the #1 US pilot. However, the two guys that were one position away from furlough before the SLI integration are in nearly identical situations after the SLI integration.

So, the only pilots who lost seniority to pilots who were junior to them prior to the SLI were those on the HP list who held a substantially higher seniority number pre-NIC versus post-NIC implementation. East pilots did not and will not lose any SENIORITY status when the NIC is finally implemented.

These facts about SENIORITY and JUNIORITY are really beyond any dispute.
We won't know the final answer to this question until we vote.

As I said, TIME!

Your wrong and that's it.

Good luck.
 
We won't know the final answer to this question until we vote.

As I said, TIME!

Your wrong and that's it.

Good luck.
TIME is not the correct answer. This can easily be demonstrated. For example, how much TIME is required to hold a NB captain position at US, HP, UA, DL, WN, CO, AA, AS or the rest. Is the same amount of TIME required to hold that left seat at each of the above carriers the same and has that TIME requirement been consistent each of the last 30 years? How much TIME is required for a pilot at any of these airlines to get to a WB? When will a US, HP, WN, AS or other pilot be guaranteed an opportunity to fly a B747, a B787, a A340, or an A380? If TIME is the single factor then one should be able to predict with absolute certainty when he will move from the right seat to the left, and when he will move from NB to WB and then from WB to superjumbo, right?

Is that how this TIME= SENIORITY system works or are there factors other than TIME that determine position/status? If other factors go into a person's seniority and thus the seat position that he is able to maintain, then your repeating TIME over and over again reveals an ignorance of the facts.
 
Good. When you get rid of Leonidas you can come back....until then, continue to be left out in the cold.

I like who we have now, so....until then,
Good luck.
Sorry EOA.....leonidas will help usher in thx reality of The Nicolau award. You have bought NOTHING but DELAY, to be followed by MISERY.

Chin up, Sparky. This will be finished in due time.
 
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