US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

And remember what I said - those fences came with C & R's.

It was a package proposal from the east.

That good enough for you smart guy?

the C&R's are there to protect you guys.....they don't have any advantage at all for us on the East. I assume that you looked at the profit sharing in the same light.....something from the East, so it can't be good, however, it put a lot of bucks in your pocket, while at the same time taking something that the East pilots gave up during BK. When have any of you guys ever acknowledged that windfall and said something like, "thx"? That came right off our backs not yours and IMHO you didn't deserve it.

Don't be so prejudice.....we don't want anything that you have. All we want to do is maintain our poitions till retirement.

 

[toganoflex]

Glad you finally noticed!

I can't believe the east turned down you generous offer of stapling 900 or so active pilot behind Dave............

That were not with the company at PID. They were on the street or employed with another airline.

 

[toganoflex]

the C&R's are there to protect you guys.....they don't have any advantage at all for us on the East. I assume that you looked at the profit sharing in the same light.....something from the East, so it can't be good, however, it put a lot of bucks in your pocket, while at the same time taking something that the East pilots gave up during BK. When have any of you guys ever acknowledged that windfall and said something like, "thx"? That came right off our backs not yours and IMHO you didn't deserve it.

Don't be so prejudice.....we don't want anything that you have. All we want to do is maintain our poitions till retirement.

Congrats, you just made the dumbest fing post I've read to date.

I dealt with your side directly and the only thing they wanted to protect was themselves.

You gave us nothing and we owe you no thanks you assshat.

 

[Pi brat]

That were not with the company at PID. They were on the street or employed with another airline.

Really!? From page 14 of the Nic award:


The America West Proposal
America West's initial proposal differed dramatically from that of
US Airways. As previously indicated, its position, when first presented
in detail, was a series of ratios accompanied with a two year condition
and restriction reserving to US Airways pilots all Captain positions on
the 9 A330 aircraft flying international routes as of May 19, 2005. The
firat proposed ratio was not Captain to Captain. Instead, America West
added to its 855 Captains an additional 114 First Officers, who,
America West claimed, expected captaincies based on the 19 A320s on
firm order as of May 2005. That combined figure (969) was to be

integrated on a straight ratio basis with 1121 US Airways Captains, a
number derived from staffing assumptions based on what 'were 221 US
Airways aircraft as of February 2006. This ratio would be followed by an
integration of the remaining America West First Officers (925) with
1051 US Airways First Officers, also on a straight ratio basis. After the
reinsertion of those on extended medical leaves and those in nonflying
positions, this would put 2431 US Airways pilots on the bottom of
the list, 959 of whom were active pilots as of May 19, 2005 with the
remaining 1472 furloughees.

It's all right there in the Nicolau award, maybe you should read it sometime! B)

 

[Pi brat]

Congrats, you just made the dumbest fing post I've read to date.

I dealt with your side directly and the only thing they wanted to protect was themselves.

You gave us nothing and we owe you no thanks you assshat.

After today, I wouldn't really call anyone else dumb, if I were you.

 

[Pi brat]

Anyway..............here's what I came up with on who can hold what:

Bottom east 737 captain is around 2300(don't want to id anyone). The west pilot junior to him on the Nic is at about 4250, which if I got my math right equates to the bottom 13% of the west list, the whole list not even just the active. The bottom EMB 190 captain was hired around '98 or '99 and thus stapled to the bottom of the entire west list on the Nic.

So, if you are a west pilot there are indeed guys beside and below on the Nic list holding captain bids on the east.

 

[Pi brat]

Str8 DOH? maybe not, but what I understand is that the latest Federal law dictates now, which it the Allagehny/Mohawk agreement......DOH with conditions and restrictions.....no more stapling to the bottom when the different pilot groups come from different unions.

What's your point?

Breeze,


This is a common idea on the east, but I don't think it is correct. I think AL/MO is basically negotiate, mediate,arbitrate and not straight DOH. But you are correct, no more stapling.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/avd/2011/07/27/04.xml&headline=JetBlue%20In%20Tentative%20Deal%20To%20Sell%2011%20E190s

 

[BoeingBoy]

Breeze,


This is a common idea on the east, but I don't think it is correct. I think AL/MO is basically negotiate, mediate,arbitrate and not straight DOH. But you are correct, no more stapling.

You are correct - arbitration if no agreement is reached during negotiations/mediation. Sound familiar? The law doesn't outlaw stapling since anything resulting from neg/med/arb is legal and final, but the stapling on one complete list under the other is unlikely except in extreme cases where one of the merger partners flew planes smaller than anything the other partner flew (think PDT merging with US, although I'm sure the East would fight for a DOH integration - gold standard and all ).

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, Gary Kelly can say anything he wants on CNBC. However the financial statements filed over the last three years don't show those kind of results.

FY Revenues Net Income Net Income %
2010 $12.1B $459M 3.7%
2009 $10.8B $ 99M 0.9%
2008 $10.5B $178M 1.7%
2007 $ 9.4B $645M 6.8%

So comparing 2008 to 2009 WN grew in total revenue by only 2.8% and dropped in net income, so where is the financial benefit to "bags fly free"?

Nice job of picking the two years that make your point while ignoring the little fact that all the airline's passenger counts were down in 2009 due to the recession.

Why not look at 2007 vs 2010 - the years during which the legacies initiated and raised baggage fees? Perhaps because WN's revenues grew almost 29% ($2.7B) and thus make a mockery of your theory? BTW, net income responded to higher fuel prices which even WN didn't totally escape.

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/07/27/bloomberg1376-LOW9BX6S973001-7ICPF5TR4F2R794PT8QBFKSS2O.DTL

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

JIM we guess your still in ALASKA! Alaska State Slogans

Whereas the Alaska state motto intends to describe the 'soul' of Alaska!

"Beyond Your Dreams, Within Your Reach"
This Alaska state slogan is used by the Official State of Alaska Travel & Vacation Information: TravelAlaska.com


"Alaska: 11,623 Eskimos Can't be Wrong!"

"Alaska: Come Freeze Your Butt Off"

"Alaska: Jeez, it's Cold"

"Alaska: Yeah, But It's a Dry Cold"
~ Andy Hynds ~

"Alaska: Masturbation Capital of the World"

"I Froze My Nuts off in Alaska"
These Alaska funny state slogans are sold on souvenirs such as badges and stickers.

 

[Pi brat]

Nice job of picking the two years that make your point while ignoring the little fact that all the airline's passenger counts were down in 2009 due to the recession.

Why not look at 2007 vs 2010 - the years during which the legacies initiated and raised baggage fees? Perhaps because WN's revenues grew almost 29% ($2.7B) and thus make a mockery of your theory? BTW, net income responded to higher fuel prices which even WN didn't totally escape.

Jim

Ok Jim, all that daylight getting to you? You and I pretty much agreeing on several issues? Weird! 🙄

 

[Pi brat]

toganoflex,

Was it something I said, or did you just have to go home for supper?

 

[toganoflex]

Really!? From page 14 of the Nic award:


The America West Proposal
America West's initial proposal differed dramatically from that of
US Airways. As previously indicated, its position, when first presented
in detail, was a series of ratios accompanied with a two year condition
and restriction reserving to US Airways pilots all Captain positions on
the 9 A330 aircraft flying international routes as of May 19, 2005. The
firat proposed ratio was not Captain to Captain. Instead, America West
added to its 855 Captains an additional 114 First Officers, who,
America West claimed, expected captaincies based on the 19 A320s on
firm order as of May 2005. That combined figure (969) was to be

integrated on a straight ratio basis with 1121 US Airways Captains, a
number derived from staffing assumptions based on what 'were 221 US
Airways aircraft as of February 2006. This ratio would be followed by an
integration of the remaining America West First Officers (925) with
1051 US Airways First Officers, also on a straight ratio basis. After the
reinsertion of those on extended medical leaves and those in nonflying
positions, this would put 2431 US Airways pilots on the bottom of
the list, 959 of whom were active pilots as of May 19, 2005 with the
remaining 1472 furloughees.

It's all right there in the Nicolau award, maybe you should read it sometime! B)

You forgot to highlight this:

America West's initial proposal

Unlike you guys, we moved off our position.