US Pilots Labor Discussion

[toganoflex]

6. In the event that either pilot group fails to fill its allotment of positions on an
aircraft type under the quota and ratio system outlined above, the members of
the other pre-merger group shall be entitled to be awarded any positions for
which there are insufficient bidders and the conditions and restrictions
applicable to the position in question shall no longer be subject to the
limitations specified herein, but shall instead be awarded pursuant to the
integrated seniority list and merged collective bargaining agreement


So, lets say all else being equal, 35 West captains retire in 2008. 35 West F/Os upgrade into those positions and there are now 35 West F/O positions that have to be filled for which there is obviously insufficient bidders. If I were Coello, I would bid PHX, be number 1 F/O, then on the very next bid, take the captain slot as I am now the #1 West F/O without C&Rs.

Ta daaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[toganoflex]

1, On an overall comparison market to market - we are NOW substantially cheaper than SWA.

2. We no longer attract "business travellers" because we rewarded them for their loyality by running them off a few years ago in favor of the leisure traveller.

3. Nobody likes to be nickel and dimed with fees - even if they are used to it.

4. If given the choice of a half full SWA flight or a completely full LCC flight - they win everytime and are still profitable.

5. Competent management - they know what they are doing

Substantially cheaper? No.

Those that don't know how to deal with the fees move on to SWA. There they find out about SWA's fees. The pax that do matter accept the fees or avoid them entirely.

I don't know where you get that we've run off the business traveler, but if you pay attention to the company's initiatives, you'd see they revolve around the FF. DCA is going to kick that up a few notches. Star Alliance doesn't hurt either.

Wall Street loved the Doug and Kirby show. They know what they're doing. Get over it.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Really. So a guy that has done countless airline seniority integration has no clue how seniority list work. But you being the ever experienced pilot do. The guy that has no dog in the fight does not know how to put together a list but you with everything to lose or gain does. Wow the arragance is stunning.




What don't you understand here. The west pilot know this and that is part of the deal. Yes east pilots are going to come to PHX and some are going to be senior. We know this and accept it but do you hear any west pilot crying about it? NO! But by God we hear east pilot screaming about west pilots coming east. Selfish!

If we get the Nic before I retire, I'm going to bid PHX just to push you down a number.

 

[toganoflex]

If we get the Nic before I retire, I'm going to bid PHX just to push you down a number.

And I'm going to listen to you #### about the heat and laugh my ass off.

 

[nycbusdriver]

And I'm going to listen to you #### about the heat and laugh my ass off.

But it's a dry heat.

 

[toganoflex]

But it's a dry heat.

Hmmmm, maybe I underestimated you.

 

[mrbreeze]

6. In the event that either pilot group fails to fill its allotment of positions on an
aircraft type under the quota and ratio system outlined above, the members of
the other pre-merger group shall be entitled to be awarded any positions for
which there are insufficient bidders and the conditions and restrictions
applicable to the position in question shall no longer be subject to the
limitations specified herein, but shall instead be awarded pursuant to the
integrated seniority list and merged collective bargaining agreement


So, lets say all else being equal, 35 West captains retire in 2008. 35 West F/Os upgrade into those positions and there are now 35 West F/O positions that have to be filled for which there is obviously insufficient bidders. If I were Coello, I would bid PHX, be number 1 F/O, then on the very next bid, take the captain slot as I am now the #1 West F/O without C&Rs.

So let's say it's almost 2012.....we are all older and the clock is running. Coello probly lives in TN and has no desire to commute to PHX.

Time marches on, my friend, and the playing field changes with each day.

 

[Pi brat]

Don't bother. I've spelled out the two most egregious ones. If you want to confirm what I said, find one of your own that was involved in the process and they can explain it to you.

We had 7 year fences on the table and the east wanted to extend those out another 3? years. Add to that what I stated and you can understand why we're where we're at.

And why would you have to take it to the BPR for me? Am I not allowed to do that for myself being a member in good standing?

And why not bother? Because negotiations ended a LONG time ago.

Its Nic - straight up or sub-B scale wages. Your choice.

You can absolutely go to the BPR yourself, if you want to get tarred and feather for sympathizing with the enemy!

You answers are pretty much what I expected.

Did a little research. If you are bottom 25% of west list, the guys sitting beside on the paper that sits on Doug's desk can hold captain on the 737, A320 or E190. F/O on the A330 or 76I. Can you hold anything like that, or are you stuck at the same rate on the A320, 757, or for a few more months, the 737? I can see why you are so angry. You were that close................

 

[toganoflex]

So let's say it's almost 2012.....we are all older and the clock is running. Coello probly lives in TN and has no desire to commute to PHX.

Time marches on, my friend, and the playing field changes with each day.

But the Nic remains the same.

 

[Pi brat]

We had 7 year fences on the table and the east wanted to extend those out another 3? years. Add to that what I stated and you can understand why we're where we're at.

Ten year fence and you turned it down? Man, that's going to seem short when this cluster is done. You guys are soooo smart!

 

[toganoflex]

You can absolutely go to the BPR yourself, if you want to get tarred and feather for sympathizing with the enemy!

You answers are pretty much what I expected.

Did a little research. If you are bottom 25% of west list, the guys sitting beside on the paper that sits on Doug's desk can hold captain on the 737, A320 or E190. F/O on the A330 or 76I. Can you hold anything like that, or are you stuck at the same rate on the A320, 757, or for a few more months, the 737? I can see why you are so angry. You were that close................

The east guy above and below me cannot hold Captain anything.

 

[toganoflex]

Ten year fence and you turned it down? Man, that's going to seem short when this cluster is done. You guys are soooo smart!

Said the guy on LOA 93.

We had no idea you guys on the east were so stupid as to give up that kind of money for a small group of pilots.

Ya, you're the genius.

 

[toganoflex]

Ten year fence and you turned it down? Man, that's going to seem short when this cluster is done. You guys are soooo smart!

And remember what I said - those fences came with C & R's.

It was a package proposal from the east.

That good enough for you smart guy?

 

[Pi brat]

The east guy above and below me cannot hold Captain anything.

Then you are not at within the top 75% of the west list. Isn't that what you said?

 

[Pi brat]

That good enough for you smart guy?

Glad you finally noticed!

I can't believe the east turned down you generous offer of stapling 900 or so active pilot behind Dave............