US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

How do you split a certificate?

You said you hope it is possible. So you don't know.

I come back to my same question when this subject comes up. Why would you east guy want to split the company if you think you are winning the seniority battle? Would you not want 1500 west pilots below you? Could it be that you all know that the Nicolau is the list and the only way you are going to avoid living with that is to split?

You can finally admit it. The first step to recovery is admitting it. Then you can get the help that you need.

I didn t say it was true, nor did I say I knew how. Nor do I feel like talking anything with you.

 

[Black Swan]

How do you split a certificate?

You said you hope it is possible. So you don't know.

I come back to my same question when this subject comes up. Why would you east guy want to split the company if you think you are winning the seniority battle? Would you not want 1500 west pilots below you? Could it be that you all know that the Nicolau is the list and the only way you are going to avoid living with that is to split?

You can finally admit it. The first step to recovery is admitting it. Then you can get the help that you need.

...

 

[No Land Green]

How do you split a certificate?

You said you hope it is possible. So you don't know.

I come back to my same question when this subject comes up. Why would you east guy want to split the company if you think you are winning the seniority battle? Would you not want 1500 west pilots below you? Could it be that you all know that the Nicolau is the list and the only way you are going to avoid living with that is to split?

The Nic is DEAD. There is no JCBA. We are still two separate pilot groups. They will fragment if need be, look no further than the E-170's that were sold to Republic, the ones that were operated under the AAA Operating Certificate.

You sound a bit desperate, accept a recall on the East side, you will be glad you did..........

 

[CallawayGolf]

The rumor is the certificate is being split. East, west. Let s hope it is possible, and true.

Didn't you predict back in mid-June that we were "days" away from transaction that would split the east and send the west to some other carrier? So that must have fallen through so now its just the company going for two separate operating certificates for some unknown reason? It seems you never tire of making false predictions or spreading baseless rumors.

 

[No Land Green]

Didn't you predict back in mid-June that we were "days" away from transaction that would split the east and send the west to some other carrier? So that must have fallen through so now its just the company going for two separate operating certificates for some unknown reason? It seems you never tire of making false predictions or spreading baseless rumors.

Makes perfect sense with the DAL Slot swap. East goes with AMR. West, who knows. PHX is too close to DFW........

 

[cleardirect]

The Nic is DEAD. There is no JCBA. We are still two separate pilot groups. They will fragment if need be, look no further than the E-170's that were sold to Republic, the ones that were operated under the AAA Operating Certificate.

You sound a bit desperate, accept a recall on the East side, you will be glad you did..........

Ding dong the Nic is dead. Keep singing. If the Nic is dead why are we in court to determine if the company can use something besides the Nicolau? If we are 2 separate groups why do the west pilots not have our own NAC and BPR and grievance committee? Why do we not get to keep all of our dues money and spend it as we see fit? Even ALPA sent back a portion of it.

How is it that I sound desperate? I did not bring some BS rumor that you guys have been hoping for. I pointed out the falseness. I also asked a question why it is you east guys that are so wrapped up with splitting this thing. If you are winning why would you want it split?

I would say more projection from you than anything.

 

[Black Swan]

Didn't you predict back in mid-June that we were "days" away from transaction that would split the east and send the west to some other carrier? So that must have fallen through so now its just the company going for two separate operating certificates for some unknown reason? It seems you never tire of making false predictions or spreading baseless rumors.

I told you I keep hearing persistent rumors that they are trying to split this piece of crap up. RUMORS. So I don't stand by any of it. Hoping this is true, and one more step into launching the east or west into different orbits. Call it what you want Calloway, I really don't care. All I want is off Team Tempe because the ride is getting too crazy for me. These idiots are pros at everything except running an airline.

 

[No Land Green]

Ding dong the Nic is dead. Keep singing. If the Nic is dead why are we in court to determine if the company can use something besides the Nicolau? If we are 2 separate groups why do the west pilots not have our own NAC and BPR and grievance committee? Why do we not get to keep all of our dues money and spend it as we see fit? Even ALPA sent back a portion of it.

How is it that I sound desperate? I did not bring some BS rumor that you guys have been hoping for. I pointed out the falseness. I also asked a question why it is you east guys that are so wrapped up with splitting this thing. If you are winning why would you want it split?

I would say more projection from you than anything.

See BS's post above, there's your answer.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Makes perfect sense with the DAL Slot swap. East goes with AMR. West, who knows. PHX is too close to DFW........

Makes perfect sense to an east pilot trying to avoid the NIC award and trying to get off of LOA93 wage scales. Why would that make sense to Management, shareholders or anyone else for that matter? Have you ever heard an executive or an industry analyst discuss the financial benefits of such a split? It's just another east diversionary pipe dream designed to give false hope in the face of insurmountable obstacles and endless setbacks.

First it was mail, phone lines and a RICO suit; then it was fuel school; then it was the FAA will not allow east/west to share a cockpit; then it was LOA93 snap backs; then it was pilot addresses; then it was Management wants to fly unsafe planes; and now it is split the company. I'm sure I've missed multiple USAPA manufactured crises, the the tone of hope and optimism followed by a deafening silence when USAPA gets zero traction on any of this. What's the next manufactured utopia or crisis going to be? Doesn't really matter as it will come and go with nothing to show for it just like all of the others did.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Splitting or obtaining an additional certificate is as easy as combining them, ie FRONTIER, UNITED, CONTINENTAL ETC! http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v10%20air%20trans%20over%20sys/chapter%2001/10_001_003.htm

 

[nic4us]

The Nic is DEAD. There is no JCBA. We are still two separate pilot groups. They will fragment if need be, look no further than the E-170's that were sold to Republic, the ones that were operated under the AAA Operating Certificate.

You sound a bit desperate, accept a recall on the East side, you will be glad you did..........

LMAO.....

Accept a recall on the east? Brother, if the rumor is true, it is likely fragmentation will bring much more heartburn on the east than the West.

Lets see, with seperate certificates and no TA the company would be free to move as many airplanes as it desired to either certificate. So where do you put them? On the east, where every time a guy retires you train a guy that is about to retire to replace them, or on the West where when you train a Captain position, at least you might get 5, 10, 20 years for your training investment.

Just guessing here, but a second certificate means airplanes on that certificate, and I would suspect the entire A320 fleet would be heading West. Well, by heading West I mean onto the West certificate. With no TA, the company could base them wherever they felt they needed them, along with the pilots who flew them.

Another thing, seperate ops means no single carrier status, and the West can say goodbye to usapa. So if you are the company who do you do bussiness with? The completely devoid of ethics and integrity USA Today ad usapians, or the West pilot group who after getting screwed by ALPA in this whole deal might just form our own in house union. Can you imagine a union with the C&BLs that state in their ethics policy, 1. Safety....2. Profession....3. Screw usapa by any means possible.

Take a recall on the east....hahhahah...that would imply furlough and frankly, if I end up furloughed or out of a job, the east isn't even in the cards for places I would consider employment.



PS. If it is all just a rumor, the Nic is far from dead and the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. Feel free to remain in your fantasy world where little lawyers promise to buy you someone elses seniority with a cost neutral contract.

 

[No Land Green]

LMAO.....

Accept a recall on the east? Brother, if the rumor is true, it is likely fragmentation will bring much more heartburn on the east than the West.

Lets see, with seperate certificates and no TA the company would be free to move as many airplanes as it desired to either certificate. So where do you put them? On the east, where every time a guy retires you train a guy that is about to retire to replace them, or on the West where when you train a Captain position, at least you might get 5, 10, 20 years for your training investment.

Just guessing here, but a second certificate means airplanes on that certificate, and I would suspect the entire A320 fleet would be heading West. Well, by heading West I mean onto the West certificate. With no TA, the company could base them wherever they felt they needed them, along with the pilots who flew them.

Another thing, seperate ops means no single carrier status, and the West can say goodbye to usapa. So if you are the company who do you do bussiness with? The completely devoid of ethics and integrity USA Today ad usapians, or the West pilot group who after getting screwed by ALPA in this whole deal might just form our own in house union. Can you imagine a union with the C&BLs that state in their ethics policy, 1. Safety....2. Profession....3. Screw usapa by any means possible.

Take a recall on the east....hahhahah...that would imply furlough and frankly, if I end up furloughed or out of a job, the east isn't even in the cards for places I would consider employment.



PS. If it is all just a rumor, the Nic is far from dead and the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. Feel free to remain in your fantasy world where little lawyers promise to buy you someone elses seniority with a cost neutral contract.

Just as you are, I'm LMAO!!!!!! Glad I'm on the East side......

 

[nic4us]

I told you I keep hearing persistent rumors that they are trying to split this piece of crap up. RUMORS. So I don't stand by any of it. Hoping this is true, and one more step into launching the east or west into different orbits. Call it what you want Calloway, I really don't care. All I want is off Team Tempe because the ride is getting too crazy for me. These idiots are pros at everything except running an airline.

Swan,

You just answered everybody's question of why a certificate split.

So, for NLG, MM etc....

Tempe splits the certificates, and you think that is a good thing for the east? What, you think Tempe is going to kill itself, split LCC and hand some fictitious "east" all the good parts?

More likely, Tempe would divest the parts that do not want to be on "Team Tempe".

 

[nic4us]

Just as you are, I'm LMAO!!!!!! Glad I'm on the East side......

Go Team!!!!

Are you on team usapa there NLG?

 

[No Land Green]

Swan,

You just answered everybody's question of why a certificate split.

So, for NLG, MM etc....

Tempe splits the certificates, and you think that is a good thing for the east? What, you think Tempe is going to kill itself, split LCC and hand some fictitious "east" all the good parts?

More likely, Tempe would divest the parts that do not want to be on "Team Tempe".

Keep wishing.......LMAO