US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

In short, the Empire pilots had better expectations being put on the bottom of the PI list than nearly every West pilot will with USAPA's DOH with C&R/s.

Jim

PS added - you didn't call me names but you did say about me "He's obviously in favor of stapling the East F/O's", a statement that I've never uttered.

Really Jim?

The Empire pilots were stapled to the bottom of a very young pilot group. Yes, PI was growing fast, but that ended with the US merger and they stagnated with the rest of us. They are just senior to me and many had to wait to check out, again, in 2008.

With DOH the west pilots are mixed in with an average old pilot group and many will retire in a better relative position than stand alone AWA. The guy I gave as an example almost doubles his relative position at retirement with DOH vs stand alone AWA. Of course with the Nic he retires almost 4 times better.

 

[No Land Green]

Gladly although I given the same answer before. I think relative position by seat/equipment is a fair starting point for merging any two seniority lists = Empire/PI, Shuttle/US, US/HP. Put in some minimum C&R's to ease in anyd transition to equipment types that only one of the merger partners has, like the widebodies in this merger. Without going into tacking inactive pilots out and then putting them back into the combined list, that's my philosophy - been that was since before I was an airline pilot watching the AA/trans-Caribbean merger to today. Nic got it basically right in my opinion, although I would have done the widebody protection differently.

So to directly answer your question, no - I didn't like the Empire pilots being stapled to the bottom but was consoled by the protection given them in SYR and the rapid growth at PI that would make the bottom Empire pilot a 727/737 captain in 4 years. In short, the Empire pilots had better expectations being put on the bottom of the PI list than nearly every West pilot will with USAPA's DOH with C&R/s.

Jim

PS added - you didn't call me names but you did say about me "He's obviously in favor of stapling the East F/O's", a statement that I've never uttered.

No Jim you never said "in favor of stapling the East F/O's" directly, but you endorse it in the above post and by defending the NIC Award, because that is exactly what it does.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No Jim you never said "in favor of stapling the East F/O's" directly, but you endorse it in the above post and by defending the NIC Award, because that is exactly what it does.

Maybe you should read the Nic award again - nowhere does it staple all the East F/O's to the bottom of the list. The F/O's are put in in relative position by seat/equip (except not on the widebody) till there were no more jobs as of the PID. One of the things that I would have done differently is give credit to the East widebody F/O's - Nic gave all the widebody jobs (captain, f/o, iro) to the top 517 on the east list. Of course, doing it my was would have protected significantly fewer captains, so it's a trade-off.

Jim

 

[No Land Green]

Back to the Navajos and Merlins???

Think again...

Driver <_<

Hey Driver,

Does the above imply what one brings to the table equipment wise or pilot wise?

 

[mikey60]

Really. I wonder if he tells his son "Sonny, the Nic award really screwed the senior west pilots, they have no fences so that senior west commuters(924PS) can come right in on top of them. But, that's okay, because is helps me make up for my failed TWA career and that's all I really care about. Can I interest you in a badge backer instead of your allowance this week?" I mean, because he is so truthful and all.

PI

Plus it was ok for him and his twa pals to staple the Ozark pilots to the bottom of their list

 

[No Land Green]

Maybe you should read the Nic award again - nowhere does it staple all the East F/O's to the bottom of the list. The F/O's are put in in relative position by seat/equip (except not on the widebody) till there were no more jobs as of the PID. One of the things that I would have done differently is give credit to the East widebody F/O's - Nic gave all the widebody jobs (captain, f/o, iro) to the top 517 on the east list. Of course, doing it my was would have protected significantly fewer captains, so it's a trade-off.

Jim

I have read the NIC Award more than once.

No Jim it doesn't "staple ALL the East F/O's to the bottom of the list" nor did I say you said that. You do imply that you endorse stapling East F/O's to the bottom of the NIC List, pilots with over 14 years of active service, ZERO'd out by the NIC Award.

Attrition is a tangible asset. If it were not, there would be no fight or discussion here. The East Pilots want their own attrition, the West Pilots want the East attrition because they don't have any where near the rate the East has. If the West had the same attrition rate as the East, there would be no seniority dispute going on, just a war with a Management that doesn't want to pay either Pilot Group industry average rates.

Too bad this industry doesn't pay like the Military...............

 

[Metroyet]

Oh Boy. Who upset the knitting ****?

 

[AWA320]

Rule 11 complaint

This will be laughed right out of court faster than that bogus Rico case. Any of you WELL versed easties care to place a bet with me on this for an expensive dinner say Mortons or some place on that level????

 

[No Land Green]

Oh Boy. Who upset the knitting ****?

Oh that is a real professional post. I really hope you are not offending anyone else, because I find that post highly offensive.

 

[Metroyet]

Oh that is a real professional post. I really hope you are not offending anyone else, because I find that post highly offensive.

Relax T.P.!! It's simply an "internal union issue". Nothing to get upset about.

 

[mikey60]

I most certainly did answer. That and other accusations you made in that post were wrong. You assume that I was an ALPA rep who had great influence on how the Empire merger was done. Wrong, wrong, wrong 2-watt. Just like when you were Nos - creating situations/positions for me that I never had.

Besides, apparently you weren't there to hear any disagreement I had with the way the Empire guys were integrated with "the airline" I "worked for." The facts are that 1 - Empire pilots were non-union, 2 - The first I heard about how they would be integrated is when Gene Sharp (VP flight ops) said "I told the Empire pilots that I could tick off 100-200 [I forget the exact number] Empire pilots or I can tick off 2000 [more or less, I forget the exact number] PI pilots so you can guess which way I'm going to integrate you."

Personally I'd rather that they had been integrated by relative position in seat/equip, but just take solace in the career long C&R's they got - DOH on the F28 systemwide and DOH for furlough - as well as the rapid growth that PI was undergoing only put the most junior Empire pilot 4 years away from being 727/737 captain (bigger airplanes than Empire ever had or had plans for) and most of the Empire f/o's bid to 727/737 f/o as quickly as possible.

Jim

Three paragraghs of pure southern bull....this is the biggest fairytale I've ever heard. Just because most of these guys were not around doesn't

give you the ok to feed this kind of crap.

 

[No Land Green]

Relax T.P.!! It's simply an "internal union issue". Nothing to get upset about.

Your choice of words is highly offensive, period.

 

[AWA320]

Three others time got you nowhere. Judge Silver may not play as nice as judge Wake.







Do I see a "spanking" coming Sehams way?

This guy should be embarrassed to even say that he is a member of the bar. My God!! The stunts he pulls in order to keep the gravy train rolling his way. The usapions are about as dumb as they come and when the final bill is added up with zero results its going to be even funnier

AWA320

 

[mikey60]

It is public knowledge. I suggest that you contact sumadarson and ask him to post it to the usapa web site. He seems to have the inside documents.

Oldie and Samadarson,

I think you boys busted sombody's myth......hahaha

 

[Pi brat]

Oh Boy. Who upset the knitting dyke?

A new low. How do you know about her knitting since you don't work for the company. Are you a US stalker? Scary.