US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

First of all it is a cut paste that means nothing till the court rules on it.

Second, the hangar doesnt have tugs.

Thirds, GSE maintains the ground equipment.

Fourth, the Airbus Arbitration was won, Richard Bloch was the arbiter, it took a contract abrogation in court to change the scope language in the CBA.

Fifth, since the merger the M&R have all ready merged seniority, obtained a new CBA with raises, more scope protections and a pension.

Sixth, in January they will be going into Section 6 negotiations for a new CBA, the second one since the merger.

How does it feel to work under a CBA modified in 2004, with no raises, no pension, no merged seniority?

How does it feel to have your job description filled by 3 flight attendants on a jet? And you don't even have to call ops to get them to roust them away from the game! 😀

 

[mikey60]

This will be laughed right out of court faster than that bogus Rico case. Any of you WELL versed easties care to place a bet with me on this for an expensive dinner say Mortons or some place on that level????

How about Micky " D"s we want you to feel at home.

 

[doh nogo]

disrupting two groups discussion that you have noting to do with.

Discussion? Is that what you call what you do on this forum?

Actually it's called being a cyber-bully. You provide absolutely no substance to any discussion. You never have. You simply redirect when someone hits a nerve or happens upon something you have no legitimate response to. You are pretty much an irrelevant internet troll. A spin artist. Perhaps it is YOUR emotion that is getting the best of you. No one cares anymore. You are living the dream under LOA93, and are the laughing stock of the industry. Pretty soon most airline f/o's will make more than your 320 captains. Good for you. Enjoy it until retirement. You are not going to ever see your DOH fantasy come true. And the longer it goes on the greater the damages you'll probably have to pay. But your postings here are worn out.

So sleep well sunshine. We all know you are a legend in your own mind.

 

[700UW]

How does it feel to have your job description filled by 3 flight attendants on a jet? And you don't even have to call ops to get them to roust them away from the game! 😀

Funny I never seen a FA do a Stock Clerk job.

And typical US East Pilot response, attack, insult and deflect.

Come back when you can actually post an intelligent response that means something.

 

[malikie]

Come back when you can actually post an intelligent response that means something.
[/quote]

I doubt you wll ever see that from the east pilot group.

 

[Pi brat]

I doubt you wll ever see that from the east pilot group.

Said the intelligent poster. Geez, what is this the 5th grade? Can your Dad beat my Dad up too?

And there is an i in there. Be careful who you call stupid.

 

[nic4us]

Three others time got you nowhere. Judge Silver may not play as nice as judge Wake.







Do I see a "spanking" coming Sehams way?

Does anybody else find it ironic that usapa's lawyer, who filed the rule 11 motion, and came for the spanking that Seham was not man enough to take from
Wake, goes by the first name, yep, you guessed it, "Nic"!!

I love it!!

Thanks for posting the letter Clear. I had not seen that. So is this the 4th or the 5th time usapa has threatened rule 11 motions against the West?

Great work SSM&P. I hope Marty saved any e-mails from your prior threats.

Looks like the kids over at Polsinelli Shugart are going to get their red rider bb guns, and GI Joes with the kung fu grip, for christmas this year.

 

[nic4us]

I have read the NIC Award more than once.

No Jim it doesn't "staple ALL the East F/O's to the bottom of the list" nor did I say you said that. You do imply that you endorse stapling East F/O's to the bottom of the NIC List, pilots with over 14 years of active service, ZERO'd out by the NIC Award.

Attrition is a tangible asset. If it were not, there would be no fight or discussion here. The East Pilots want their own attrition, the West Pilots want the East attrition because they don't have any where near the rate the East has. If the West had the same attrition rate as the East, there would be no seniority dispute going on, just a war with a Management that doesn't want to pay either Pilot Group industry average rates.

Too bad this industry doesn't pay like the Military...............

Well, I will answere in a much more civil tone than metro,

The attrition "asset" is not only tangible, it is also quantifiable. It was measured and calculated when the arbitrator listened to the east's reasoning of why they should get their way. You brought 2800 jobs, attrition, wide bodies, 1700 furloughs, etc. etc.

Here is the fact, your attrition and wide bodies bought you the top 517, and a ratioed list. If you did not have it perhaps Nic would have aligned more with what the West asked for and put a couple hundred active east below Odell.

Now, after the fact, the east pilots want "their" attrition? Sorry, you already spent it on the Nic. No refunds, that is why they call it binding arbitration.

 

[Pi brat]

Does anybody else find it ironic that usapa's lawyer, who filed the rule 11 motion, and came for the spanking that Seham was not man enough to take from
Wake, goes by the first name, yep, you guessed it, "Nic"!!

I love it!!

Thanks for posting the letter Clear. I had not seen that. So is this the 4th or the 5th time usapa has threatened rule 11 motions against the West?

Great work SSM&P. I hope Marty saved any e-mails from your prior threats.

Looks like the kids over at Polsinelli Shugart are going to get their red rider bb guns, and GI Joes with the kung fu grip, for christmas this year.

No, but along those lines you know what I have thought about this December? I see the Lexus commercials with a new one wrapped up as a present and think "Who gets a Lexus for Christmas?" I bet there will be one under the tree in PHX and New York. I'm expecting a Thank You note from our attorneys, how about you?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have read the NIC Award more than once.

No Jim it doesn't "staple ALL the East F/O's to the bottom of the list" nor did I say you said that. You do imply that you endorse stapling East F/O's to the bottom of the NIC List, pilots with over 14 years of active service, ZERO'd out by the NIC Award.

You said "staple the east f/o's to the bottom" with no quantify on the "east f/o's." That implys all f/o's to me. I don't know about your wife if you have one, but if mine sent me to the store to get a dozen eggs and I got 6 and told her that "I got the eggs", she'd be wondering why I didn't get a dozen.

Attrition is a tangible asset. If it were not, there would be no fight or discussion here. The East Pilots want their own attrition, the West Pilots want the East attrition because they don't have any where near the rate the East has. If the West had the same attrition rate as the East, there would be no seniority dispute going on, just a war with a Management that doesn't want to pay either Pilot Group industry average rates.

As I've said before, if the East had asked for protection of their attrition and widebody jobs there'd probably have been no arbitration. The MC told the East pilots that that was a realistic goal. But the East pilots said that wasn't enough, only DOH would suffice. There were petitions passed around and the MEC threatened to recall the MC unless they pursued DOH. So excuse me for saying that "we only want our attrition" is offered up as an excuse way too late. The East pilots demanding nothing less than DOH got the MC to do their bidding and here we are - the East still demanding DOH.

BTW, attrition is not a tangible asset. How much did the bottom active pilot move up due to that "tangible asset" between mid-1991 and the recalls in 1997? Not a bit - that pilot remained the bottom active pilot the whole time. The same applies after the 2002 furloughs - the bottom active pilot remained the bottom active pilot the whole time until the recalls in 2007. Attrition may result in vacancies or it might not. Try telling some of those who reached retirement age while on furlough how tangible attrition is.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

No, but along those lines you know what I have thought about this December? I see the Lexus commercials with a new one wrapped up as a present and think "Who gets a Lexus for Christmas?" I bet there will be one under the tree in PHX and New York. I'm expecting a Thank You note from our attorneys, how about you?

I have never owned a foreign car, so it definitely would not be me or the wife wrapping up a Lexus. Now maybe a Cadillac CTS-V, or a Dodge Viper, maybe a Corvette, naa..I'll stick with my 10 year old truck.

Although he probably should send a thank you, please do not encourage Seham to send anything to my home address. Especially a thank you with a summons attached.

PS. I do not think Seham could reach the pedals on the Lexus. They probably have a nice bow that would fit on a Cooper mini.

 

[Pi brat]

I have never owned a foreign car, so it definitely would not be me or the wife wrapping up a Lexus. Now maybe a Cadillac CTS-V, or a Dodge Viper, maybe a Corvette, naa..I'll stick with my 10 year old truck.

Although he probably should send a thank you, please do not encourage Seham to send anything to my home address. Especially a thank you with a summons attached.

PS. I do not think Seham could reach the pedals on the Lexus. They probably have a nice bow that would fit on a Cooper mini.

Okay, that's funny!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Really Jim?

The Empire pilots were stapled to the bottom of a very young pilot group. Yes, PI was growing fast, but that ended with the US merger and they stagnated with the rest of us. They are just senior to me and many had to wait to check out, again, in 2008.

You're right - the expectations at the time the Empire pilots were put on the PI list were upset by the US/PI merger, leading to years of stagnation. The US "DOH or the highway" screwed things up for many pilots for a long time. But hey - those US and PSA boys got their way so it's "too bad, so sad" for everyone else. Seems like you are reliving that whole episode except this time you're on the "too bad, so sad" side.

With DOH the west pilots are mixed in with an average old pilot group and many will retire in a better relative position than stand alone AWA. The guy I gave as an example almost doubles his relative position at retirement with DOH vs stand alone AWA.

So after saying how expectations were dashed due to a merger, this time you want to be on side saying "if you West guys will just wait 10-15 years you can have your expectations then. Who knows what will happen in that time - in 1986 no one envisioned the US/PI merger that was less than 4 years away.

Jim

 

[Leonidas]

No, but along those lines you know what I have thought about this December? I see the Lexus commercials with a new one wrapped up as a present and think "Who gets a Lexus for Christmas?" I bet there will be one under the tree in PHX and New York. I'm expecting a Thank You note from our attorneys, how about you?

Trying to harm a minority and not living up to your agreements are expensive endeavors.

 

[Pi brat]

You're right - the expectations at the time the Empire pilots were put on the PI list were upset by the US/PI merger, leading to years of stagnation. The US "DOH or the highway" screwed things up for many pilots for a long time. But hey - those US and PSA boys got their way so it's "too bad, so sad" for everyone else. Seems like you are reliving that whole episode except this time you're on the "too bad, so sad" side.



So after saying how expectations were dashed due to a merger, this time you want to be on side saying "if you West guys will just wait 10-15 years you can have your expectations then. Who knows what will happen in that time - in 1986 no one envisioned the US/PI merger that was less than 4 years away.

Jim

Not really. Even though I thought that PI was one of the greatest airlines ever, I think west pilots with DOH and C&Rs have more to look forward to than Empire pilots stapled to the bottom of PI's list. But I'm not surprised that's what you took out of it

What is it Jim? You were hired relatively old at PI, were moving up smartly, the merger messed that up and you can't get over it?