US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Hey. A westie told me that the PHX operation went really bad for a few days when the distance learning hissy fit occured, and that is what got Dougie's attention. I feel bound to turn that in as an illegal job action.

And USAPA will get fined and Cleary arrested for not complying with the soon to be ordered injunction.

What irony!

 

[A320 Driver]

If the company responds properly to the illegal work action, there should be plenty of "attrition". A CLT satellite base for west pilots wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

Your wet dream...

 

[cleardirect]

Hey. A westie told me that the PHX operation went really bad for a few days when the distance learning hissy fit occured, and that is what got Dougie's attention. I feel bound to turn that in as an illegal job action.

Turn it into who?

The company? usapa? Are you going to insist that the union prosecute west pilots AGAIN for an alleged illegal job action. Read the law the union is still responsible.

Try and think some of your comment through before you make a fool of yourself.

 

[Pi brat]

And USAPA will get fined and Cleary arrested for not complying with the soon to be ordered injunction.

What irony!

So you admit it happened. Great, it's going to Doug, Scott, and Isom. Hopefully we can get some westicles that participated fired. After all, it's our responsibility, right?

Not the union Clear, a responsible individual, non particiapating illegal job action pilot. Tell the truth big man, did it happen?

 

[Phoenix]

So you admit it happened. Great, it's going to Doug, Scott, and Isom. Hopefully we can get some westicles that participated fired. After all, it's our responsibility, right?

Not the union Clear, a responsible individual, no illegal job action pilot. Tell the truth big man, did it happen?

Pi, there you go again assuming they can recognized puns, irony, or sarcasm.

 

[cleardirect]

I'd be more worried they don't start to close that money losing base in PHX. Your a drain on our system.

I think you are starting to lose it. I know you east guys like to ignore reality. Remember a little piece of paper called the T/A? Min block hours! As long as we are separate the company can not close PHX. So your little attempted threat is worthless.

Now with the all rookie NAC giving away the good parts of the west contract in favor of the east and no chance of keeping min block hours that is where the west gets hurt no with separate ops. So enjoy LOA 93 and we will enjoy out base.

BTW the only drain on OUR system now is the east pilots. What did the company say $377,000 per day?

 

[88 B.T.D.]

....Remember a little piece of paper called the T/A? Min block hours! As long as we are separate the company can not close PHX.

Not trying to stir up anything with the following statement. There is a min number of west aircraft and block hours in the T/A, but the Company could indeed close PHX if they desired.

 

[cleardirect]

So you admit it happened. Great, it's going to Doug, Scott, and Isom. Hopefully we can get some westicles that participated fired. After all, it's our responsibility, right?

Not the union Clear, a responsible individual, non particiapating illegal job action pilot. Tell the truth big man, did it happen?

Real nice "union" attitude there dude. How about you go tell your teamster, dock worker buddies that you want your "brother" pilots fired. Find out what they think of that.

What are Doug, Scott and Isom going to do with your here before unknown information? Will you insist that they include it in the injinction? You do understand that if the company gets an injunction it applies to the west too right?

You really need to read up on the RLA and the way the law works. It is the union that is responsible. While the company can fired individual pilots the union is on the hook.

UAL a handful of pilots started the sick out. The union got the injunction. AA an injunction was issued and the union told the pilots to stop. The pilots continued yet it was the union and the leadership that got fined.

So yes the union is responsible. Part of the duties for wanting to represent pilots as the CBA. Being the CBA does not just mean you can collect dues and do what you want. While Cleary is running it like a banana republic there are rules.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Lets assume for the moment that the east loses LOA 93 and the company gets their injunction.

I would guess that a representational card drive would then be attempted. The timeline for such an effort would begin in the fall and conclude in the spring. This would coincide with USAPA officer elections which will also take place in the spring of 2012 (won't that be fun to watch).

So my question is this: if an ALPA card drive is successful, does this indicate that the east has abdicated and is now willing to accept the Nic, or, does a return to ALPA take us back to the status quo ante - where two separate MEC's exist, the west has its veto/ratification authority returned, and a slim possibility that a non Nic/DOH solution can yet be explored?

Or is an IBT card drive more likely to succeed?

My intuition tells me that staying on the present legal course will become increasingly untenable. It comes down to simple dollars. Even a DOH victory 3 years from now will never compensate for the money lost after ten years under LOA93 - and that includes attrition generated upgrades in the meantime.

Remember, when we last left the scene, ALPA had made no final determination on the seniority dispute. The east MEC had just filed a lawsuit against the west MEC, Wye River was tried and failed, ALPA had formed the Rice panel, etc.

Or am I off the reservation on this?

 

[Phoenix]

Real nice "union" attitude there dude. How about you go tell your teamster, dock worker buddies that you want your "brother" pilots fired. Find out what they think of that.

What are Doug, Scott and Isom going to do with your here before unknown information? Will you insist that they include it in the injinction? You do understand that if the company gets an injunction it applies to the west too right?

You really need to read up on the RLA and the way the law works. It is the union that is responsible. While the company can fired individual pilots the union is on the hook.

UAL a handful of pilots started the sick out. The union got the injunction. AA an injunction was issued and the union told the pilots to stop. The pilots continued yet it was the union and the leadership that got fined.

So yes the union is responsible. Part of the duties for wanting to represent pilots as the CBA. Being the CBA does not just mean you can collect dues and do what you want. While Cleary is running it like a banana republic there are rules.

Pi, there you go again assuming they can recognized puns, irony, or sarcasm.

I gave you a hint and you still walked right into it. 🙄

 

[luvn737s]

Single Carrier and USAPA's election eliminated any west MEC. ALPA would not win, in my estimation because of the radioactive emotions involved. A clean sheet union comprised of pragmatic, rational, moderates from east and west would likely win and quite possibly a leader from the west side.

The kids were allowed to have their party, now it's time to clean up, pay the damages and move on.

 

[Phoenix]

Lets assume for the moment that the east loses LOA 93 and the company gets their injunction.

I would guess that a representational card drive would then be attempted. The timeline for such an effort would begin in the fall and conclude in the spring. This would coincide with USAPA officer elections which will also take place in the spring of 2012 (won't that be fun to watch).

So my question is this: if an ALPA card drive is successful, does this indicate that the east has abdicated and is now willing to accept the Nic, or, does a return to ALPA take us back to the status quo ante - where two separate MEC's exist, the west has its veto/ratification authority returned, and a slim possibility that a non Nic/DOH solution can yet be explored?

Or is an IBT card drive more likely to succeed?

My intuition tells me that staying on the present legal course will become increasingly untenable. It comes down to simple dollars. Even a DOH victory 3 years from now will never compensate for the money lost after ten years under LOA93 - and that includes attrition generated upgrades in the meantime.

Remember, when we last left the scene, ALPA had made no final determination on the seniority dispute. The east MEC had just filed a lawsuit against the west MEC, Wye River was tried and failed, ALPA had formed the Rice panel, etc.

Or am I off the reservation on this?

Should a hooker go back to her pimp after she kicks him in the junk, takes the money, and tells him she will never be back?

 

[cleardirect]

Not trying to stir up anything with the following statement. There is a min number of west aircraft and block hours in the T/A, but the Company could indeed close PHX if they desired.

8. In the event that the Airline Parties intend to open or close a domicile or satellite domicile, the Airline Parties will meet and confer with the Association and share the analysis upon which the decision is based. The Airline Parties may close the affected domicile or satellite domicile if the analysis upon which the decision is based establishes that there is a cost savings generated by the closing.

9. America West and US Airways will not establish TDY positions at a pilot domicile of the other airline.

I think the company would have a very hard time justifying closing a base with 300 flights a day. Also no TDY so that means the company would have to have a bid forcing all PHX pilots into either CLT, PHL or DCA paying for the move of every west pilots. We would also have a separate chief pilot structure and offices within a single domicile. Very expensive. All of the overnights required in PHX. No way.

 

[No Land Green]

I think the company would have a very hard time justifying closing a base with 300 flights a day. Also no TDY so that means the company would have to have a bid forcing all PHX pilots into either CLT, PHL or DCA paying for the move of every west pilots. We would also have a separate chief pilot structure and offices within a single domicile. Very expensive. All of the overnights required in PHX. No way.

Of course that all depends on the kind of POS JCBA this weak pilot group buys off on. Is "company paid moving expenses" in the Kirby POS Proposal that so many of you want?

 

[cleardirect]

Should a hooker go back to her pimp after she kicks him in the junk, takes the money, and tells him she will never be back?

Admitting the problem is the first step. So you are admitting that you east pilots are hookers.
You attacked ALPA and stole the money.

OK!

Except you left the first pimp and jumped to a worse pimp. The answer might be stop being hoes.