US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

The Corporate Culture philosophy at LCC and WN/FL are not even in the same universe.

That's something I think every employee can agree with.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Judge Bybee also said this:

"...But when USAPA won the certification election and refused in practice to bargain for implementation of the Nicolau Award, a previously bargained-for award that the Airline had already accepted and continues to accept, this was not the announcement of an intention, but actual “act[ion] against the interest of” the West Pilots—the precise point at which, it seems to me (and to the Second Circuit), a DFR breach occurs. Id. (“the breach occurs when the union acts against the interests of its members”);..."


The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals "punted" on this one boys. Judge Bybee and Judge Wake are opposed to Tashima & Graber (essentially).

We could "cherry pick" bits and pieces of legal decisions all night. It still doesn't change the fact that your group voted in a new CBA specifically with the intent of evading a final and binding seniority arbitration. It still doesn't change the fact that all the other players are getting HUGE raises, and you are stuck trying to evade a final and binding seniority arbitration. It still doesn't change the fact that my new "union" has pi$$ed away OVER 10 million dollars of our union dues (and that lawyer has now left with our money) to evade a final and binding arbitration.

[[/i]
🙂

Why quote a judge that disagreed with the courts action when he carries no weight after the vote is taken? Is it because that is all you have? Two judges who's rulings meant nothing? Wake said it was ripe and the 9th says it isn't...POOF, it isn't. Another judge disagrees with the other two and POOF, he is outvoted. So all you really have is a puff of smoke.

So what REALLY matters? It is the 9ths ruling, Wake and Judge What's his puss be damned. If you want the NIC, you better start finding a way around what the 9th said. It's not likely they will undo themselves. Throwing in with two judges that lost won't help you. Unless something changes, the fairness of the NIC will be compared to whatever USAPA includes in the contract. Unless by some miracle Judge Silver says Nic or nothing which is in conflict with the language in the 9ths ruling. That would set off another round of appeals.

I'll be retired before this is all sorted out. I've resigned myself to that and LOA93 until I say goodbye to the airline.

Of course I'm just guessing...just like most of the posters on this board.

Driver

 

[mikey60]

The default is set to display 10 records. If you're #25 on the list, however it prioritizes them, your record doesn't display.

You're right that certificates don't expire but it may only show certificate holders who are current, either on currency or medical. That would explain mine not showing up. Or it could just return incomplete results.

Jim

I got nothing in mine, could it be that some of us older farts have numbers not ss numbers on our certificate and its set for ss numbers?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

"SEPERATE RATIFICATION!" Say it, would have never happened, suck it up "PEYOTEBOY53" , join get a contract, and sue later or accept the "RISK" , your choice we could care less! MM! USAPA is unable to alter this managments transaction decisions, "that PHX hub" worth what? !

 

[cactusboy53]

"SEPERATE RATIFICATION!" Say it, would have never happened, suck it up "PEYOTEBOY53" , join get a contract, and sue later or accept the "RISK" , your choice we could care less! MM! USAPA is unable to alter this managments transaction decisions, "that PHX hub" worth what? !

See "You"-Sapa in court. Please drive safely & don't type angry. You are the only person that knows how to take care of you, and gosh darn it......you're worth it. :blink:

 

[luvthe9]

See "You"-Sapa in court. Please drive safely & don't type angry. You are the only person that knows how to take care of you, and gosh darn it......you're worth it. :blink:

Only problem is things have not worked out to well for you guys in court, right. B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Only problem is things have not worked out to well for you guys in court, right. B)

Actually, if you're counting, the west has won more than they've lost. RICO and MEC vs west ring any bells. What exactly has USAPA won in court? A delay in the DFR trial till it's ripe unless it has a change of heart and takes the 9th advice - represent both sides equally.

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

See "You"-Sapa in court. Please drive safely & don't type angry. You are the only person that knows how to take care of you, and gosh darn it......you're worth it. :blink:

See ya moron!, you bet Long, long road now, What am I angry about ? NOTHING! , Your groups (AOL< AWAPPA, ) has sealed your groups "FATE" our asset base in the east 'along with rev prodution pricing" adds the "ONLY" asset this franchise has, your screwed good luck! LMFAO

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why quote a judge that disagreed with the courts action when he carries no weight after the vote is taken?

That's sorta what I think when some easties quote the dissenting opinion on the Nic award to support the view that the award was flawed...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I got nothing in mine, could it be that some of us older farts have numbers not ss numbers on our certificate and its set for ss numbers?

I have no idea, but it's downloadable from the FAA. You can even specify employing company to just download US pilots since nearly everyone has gotten a new medical since the merger.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

I have and they show downward trends. Again history has allowed us to see where you would have been, if you could open your eyes. Several quarters of losses prior to the merger, rising employee and fuel costs, failure of the trans con route expansion, the coming economic problems in your two hubs, and outstanding ATSB loan and looming cash crunch.

From your posts, on this I have to give Parker the edge on you. We both needed the merger, even if US Airways needs were more pressing.

Here are a few, admittedly selected, from you favorite document, the Nicolau award:

Despite these differences, to be detailed later, it is clear from the
evidence that the more financially able needed the other and that both
have benefited financially from the acquisition.

The America West Representatives concede that the scheduled
repayments of the Company's ATSB loan created potential liquidity
problems for the airline.

What a fine day of flying and then football. Now its back to work.

Here ya go Pi.

Apr. 20. 2005 / 1:00PM, AWA - Q1 2005 America West Holdings Earnings Conference Call
Ray Neidl - Calyon Securities - Analyst:
“Congratulations in a way, guys. Improvement in the RASM. It looks very good. And the momentum can be kept going, going forward. Regarding liquidity, though, it looks like you're going to be building up cash, you said, in the second quarter, but I think some people that I've been hearing from are very nervous in the later part of the year with some of the debt maturities in ATSB. I was just wondering if you could comment on where you see your liquidity going through the second half of the year after the summer season.”


Doug Parker - America West Holdings - Chairman, President & CEO:
“(Inaudible) who those people are. But nonetheless, we're not losing any sleep over liquidity here, Ray. The fact of the matter is if, indeed, this environment stays like it is and we did no financing whatsoever, we still believe -- our own predictions indicate that we would have ample cash at year-end. Having said that, I doubt that's the scenario that plays out. My own guess is that if, indeed things stay -- if the industry stays in the current environment, we would go back and raise some financing. And results like we produced today give me ample confidence we'll be able to do that. It may be refinancings and you mentioned the ATSB, and that may be part of what ends up happening. But the fact of the matter is airlines that are producing results that are this much better than the rest of the industry don't generally find themselves with liquidity issues and I imagine that will be the case here.”

 

[Move2CLT]

Let me ask you this....if the Arb was done according to ALPA merger policy and all
that implies do you agree with NIC that a new hire who had never flown a revenue trip wth this company
carried the same weight as a 17 years never furloughed pilot.....yea of course you do!

NICDOA
NPJB

Both were at the bottom of their respective lists, right? You don't agree they had the same relative seniority? Yea, of course you don't!

 

[A320 Driver]

That's sorta what I think when some easties quote the dissenting opinion on the Nic award to support the view that the award was flawed...

Jim

Yeah, I guess I sorta agree with you. In truth, he complained in one regard and then turned around and praised NIC for his wisdom.

 

[Pi brat]

What a fine day of flying and then football. Now its back to work.

Here ya go Pi.

Apr. 20. 2005 / 1:00PM, AWA - Q1 2005 America West Holdings Earnings Conference Call
Ray Neidl - Calyon Securities - Analyst:
“Congratulations in a way, guys. Improvement in the RASM. It looks very good. And the momentum can be kept going, going forward. Regarding liquidity, though, it looks like you're going to be building up cash, you said, in the second quarter, but I think some people that I've been hearing from are very nervous in the later part of the year with some of the debt maturities in ATSB. I was just wondering if you could comment on where you see your liquidity going through the second half of the year after the summer season.”


Doug Parker - America West Holdings - Chairman, President & CEO:
“(Inaudible) who those people are. But nonetheless, we're not losing any sleep over liquidity here, Ray. The fact of the matter is if, indeed, this environment stays like it is and we did no financing whatsoever, we still believe -- our own predictions indicate that we would have ample cash at year-end. Having said that, I doubt that's the scenario that plays out. My own guess is that if, indeed things stay -- if the industry stays in the current environment, we would go back and raise some financing. And results like we produced today give me ample confidence we'll be able to do that. It may be refinancings and you mentioned the ATSB, and that may be part of what ends up happening. But the fact of the matter is airlines that are producing results that are this much better than the rest of the industry don't generally find themselves with liquidity issues and I imagine that will be the case here.”

Thank God you're OK, you haven't gone that long since you "got here".

April 20, 2005. Hmmm, why would Doug be so confident then??????? Oh yeah, they were just about to announce the merger that brought with it tons o' cash and would save AWA from CHP 11.

You said something like "double digit quarters of profits". Here's a hint, that is more than 9. Let's see em. Did you catch the 10-K I posted?

Besides, Doug was probably just saying that to make you feel better 🙂

Welcome back sport, I thought it was something I said.

 

[Reed Richards]

Nope. My statements are based on the findings of the courts, thus far. The only thing USAPA hangs on at this very moment is that the DFR is not ripe (according to the ninth) right now, BUT will MOST ASSUREDLY be RIPE when a joint contract is delivered that DOES NOT contain the NICOLAU seniority list (unaltered). FACT.

This is why the company is now in court for declaratory judgement. They know they will be held responsible (hybrid DFR) if they are a party to a joint CBA that does not contain the Nicolau Award (unaltered). Mikey & Randy have already told your pilot group (when you were drooling over UAL's international fleet years ago): No arbitrated seniority list has EVER been overturned by the courts. PERIOD.

You did not need to spend 2M plus in donations just to find out when your DFR case would be ripe. All you really needed was an honest law firm to tell you to wait for a ratified contract, and not milk you for 2 years only to find out the "truth." Most assuredly ripe then, yes indeed. That is a fact!

The company is not being honest, they know exactly what their responsibilities are. They only have to negotiate in good faith. I think Rocky and Bullwinkle were correct. You are forgetting that a true seniority list, and not just a proposal, must be ratified in a contract first. Only then is it a "list."

But we have all been over this stuff for years here. Who saved who? Who should have done what years ago? Blah Blah. No meaning now. We are where we are.

Are they still in the party mode on the Ninth floor over LOA 93? (nope.)

RR